Martial Arts and Mental Resilience for Middle Aged Men

[00:00:05] Welcome to the Man Up, Man Down podcast presented by Volker Ballueder and David Pawsey.

[00:00:12] We discuss the pressures and challenges faced by men approaching middle age that we're often too embarrassed to speak about with our friends.

[00:00:20] You can find us online at www.manupdown.com.

[00:00:26] Enjoy the show and don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review.

[00:00:31] Welcome to another episode of Man Up, Man Down.

[00:00:35] And today we're delighted to welcome Dave Ferguson.

[00:00:38] Dave is the innovative mind behind the integrated martial arts method.

[00:00:43] During the lockdowns of 2020 and 2021, which I'm sure we all remember in several other traumatic experiences,

[00:00:53] Dave began to develop and align his four-decade of multiple martial arts experience,

[00:00:57] crafting the first martial arts-based program exclusively designed to address the distinct challenges faced by middle-aged men.

[00:01:05] And we face a lot though.

[00:01:07] Dave's integrated martial arts approach combines a range of traditional and late modern styles,

[00:01:12] ensuring that everyone finds what they need.

[00:01:14] Having honed his craft alongside a 25-year civil service career in people management, improvement and inclusion for all,

[00:01:20] he applies evidence-based analysis to the pains, needs and challenges faced by many middle-aged men.

[00:01:28] So a lot to take in there, Dave.

[00:01:31] I've got lots of questions as usual.

[00:01:33] I'm sure a Volcker-Lafel one or two as well.

[00:01:37] I mean, yeah, I don't know where to start.

[00:01:40] So, I mean, 25 years in the civil service.

[00:01:44] I don't know if it's a bit of a cliche, but it's always seen as, you know,

[00:01:47] you hear about the gold-plated civil service pension.

[00:01:52] So, yeah, why would you want to move from that safety net doing what you do?

[00:02:01] Well, yeah, anyway, welcome.

[00:02:03] Very much appreciated.

[00:02:06] Yeah, I mean, I think for me, just touching on the civil service aspect,

[00:02:10] I was probably at stage, I'm 55 now, and I probably was at the stage,

[00:02:16] I'd been in the civil service, as I said, for 20 years plus,

[00:02:19] where you could talk about, you know, maybe continuing,

[00:02:23] paying on, if you like, dare I say, for the golden pension.

[00:02:27] It's not that golden anymore, to be fair.

[00:02:31] But I suppose if you compare it maybe to the average career or employment area,

[00:02:39] it's probably quite favorable.

[00:02:42] And that is true.

[00:02:43] But while in one way I was quite close in the sense of around 10, 11 years,

[00:02:50] I think it's 11 years before I would have officially retired,

[00:02:53] I also had got to the stage where I knew I wouldn't be able to,

[00:02:58] shall we say, cruise to this golden age pension.

[00:03:02] Because there was a lot of things going on in my life,

[00:03:04] which I'm sure I'll touch upon at some point today.

[00:03:10] And I wasn't happy.

[00:03:12] I didn't realize how unhappy I was, but I wasn't happy.

[00:03:16] Now, thankfully, before I actually left the civil service,

[00:03:19] things have got actually quite a lot better after becoming really terrible

[00:03:24] through several traumatic experiences that were quite condensed

[00:03:28] over the same sort of COVID-type period.

[00:03:34] And they range from several things.

[00:03:36] I mean, the first one, and I suppose it links to some extent to my option

[00:03:42] for brain health and neurology,

[00:03:45] was a friend of mine who had been assaulted,

[00:03:49] well, harmed very badly,

[00:03:52] and suffered considerable brain damage.

[00:03:54] Well, for instance.

[00:03:56] Yeah, I see.

[00:03:57] It was a horrific experience,

[00:03:59] and various stages of that horrific experience,

[00:04:02] if you can be honest.

[00:04:05] And not a million miles from yourself, actually,

[00:04:08] Volker, in the showroom area.

[00:04:10] All right, yeah.

[00:04:11] And going through that process was pretty horrific for many reasons.

[00:04:18] The impact on yourself,

[00:04:20] the impact obviously on an individual,

[00:04:22] the family,

[00:04:23] the following criminal justice system process,

[00:04:26] which, of course, I was part of as well.

[00:04:28] So I was kind of there for the moral and practical support.

[00:04:34] And maybe quite typically manly,

[00:04:36] I thought I'll help everyone else,

[00:04:39] and maybe didn't realize the impact it would potentially have on myself.

[00:04:45] We managed to get through the criminal justice process, as it were,

[00:04:48] and it was a reasonably satisfactory outcome.

[00:04:53] I'm not sure there ever can be,

[00:04:55] because you've almost lost,

[00:04:56] you know, the family,

[00:04:58] ourselves as peers and friends,

[00:04:59] have almost lost someone to some extent.

[00:05:01] There are some similarities to a bereavement, actually.

[00:05:05] He can no longer converse anymore.

[00:05:10] And following that,

[00:05:12] I had a very close bereavement as well,

[00:05:14] probably about a year after that.

[00:05:15] I was probably just about starting to recover,

[00:05:18] you know,

[00:05:19] because I think of myself as quite stoic and resilient,

[00:05:21] like I think a lot of men do.

[00:05:24] And that was really difficult.

[00:05:25] It was an auntie,

[00:05:26] but a genetic auntie,

[00:05:28] and in our culture,

[00:05:29] sometimes we have quite a wide community of aunties and uncles.

[00:05:35] And then several weeks after her bereavement,

[00:05:38] I had an incident with our wonderful police force,

[00:05:43] where some of my close family members were being assaulted.

[00:05:47] And I'm afraid the stereotypes are true.

[00:05:51] And in the end,

[00:05:52] the police,

[00:05:53] about six of them or five,

[00:05:55] should remember this,

[00:05:55] shouldn't I,

[00:05:55] about five of them piled on top of me

[00:05:57] and sprayed me consistently

[00:06:00] with a various range of chemicals.

[00:06:04] And so every time I thought I was getting a little bit better,

[00:06:08] I was going further down,

[00:06:09] without realizing it at the time,

[00:06:10] of course,

[00:06:10] necessarily.

[00:06:12] And then the final sort of,

[00:06:14] what I would class as a traumatic experience

[00:06:16] that influenced the need for change.

[00:06:19] And I think,

[00:06:20] I hope this is quite relevant to middle-aged men as well,

[00:06:22] so I'm happy to share this in a little more depth,

[00:06:25] was I had some discomfort around my testes area.

[00:06:30] Can't quite remember the timeline.

[00:06:32] I think it was probably just before my auntie's bereavement,

[00:06:37] if I remember right,

[00:06:37] the first time.

[00:06:39] And I didn't think much of it.

[00:06:41] And I thought it was because of a box of shorts

[00:06:43] or something ridiculous like that.

[00:06:44] Because when I sort of adjusted the shorts,

[00:06:45] it felt better.

[00:06:47] But that went on for several weeks,

[00:06:48] if not months.

[00:06:50] So I thought,

[00:06:50] this isn't quite right.

[00:06:51] So I went to the GP,

[00:06:55] and I'm not going to say that all women GPs

[00:06:58] don't understand or are empathetic in this context,

[00:07:01] and not say that all male GPs are.

[00:07:04] But in my particular circumstance,

[00:07:05] when I went to my GP,

[00:07:07] who was a woman,

[00:07:09] she did the checks,

[00:07:10] which is again,

[00:07:11] it's pretty uncomfortable.

[00:07:12] And it's not,

[00:07:13] it's not a surprise that a lot of men may be,

[00:07:14] oh, I'm not going to get that check.

[00:07:16] No way.

[00:07:17] But I,

[00:07:18] in general,

[00:07:20] maybe not that stereotypical,

[00:07:22] in so much as I,

[00:07:23] I don't know what's wrong with me.

[00:07:25] I'll go and get a check.

[00:07:26] I'll find an expert,

[00:07:28] you know,

[00:07:28] not Google or anything like that,

[00:07:30] but I'll find an expert to support and help with that.

[00:07:33] So that's what I did.

[00:07:35] But regrettably,

[00:07:36] she was a little blasé,

[00:07:38] and sort of did the checks and everything,

[00:07:40] mildly uncomfortable,

[00:07:41] but okay,

[00:07:41] as long as we get,

[00:07:42] get something from this.

[00:07:44] And her sort of end diagnosis was,

[00:07:46] well,

[00:07:46] I don't know what it is.

[00:07:48] And take some paracetamol.

[00:07:50] Right.

[00:07:51] And that just didn't seem right.

[00:07:53] But again,

[00:07:54] I'm not an expert.

[00:07:55] So I didn't know.

[00:07:56] So I sort of went away fairly uncomfortable with that knowledge.

[00:07:58] Um,

[00:08:00] and to just shorten the story a little bit,

[00:08:02] several months still ongoing,

[00:08:04] felt a little bit better afterwards,

[00:08:05] maybe a better placebo effect there.

[00:08:07] Um,

[00:08:07] but not too short.

[00:08:08] And several months later,

[00:08:10] same thing,

[00:08:10] still continuing,

[00:08:11] possibly getting worse.

[00:08:12] So I went back to the GP.

[00:08:15] And in,

[00:08:16] on this occasion,

[00:08:17] it was a male,

[00:08:18] and immediately he was far more engaged and empathetic and,

[00:08:22] and a little humorous and,

[00:08:23] you know,

[00:08:23] like we do.

[00:08:24] And that was really,

[00:08:26] really helpful.

[00:08:27] And he did similar checks,

[00:08:29] um,

[00:08:29] but had much more solutions and theories behind that.

[00:08:33] So one of them was,

[00:08:34] um,

[00:08:35] it could have been this particular muscle,

[00:08:37] uh,

[00:08:38] or a cream of stain muscle.

[00:08:40] Might have got that wrong.

[00:08:41] Um,

[00:08:41] and it's basically one of the muscles that are male testes.

[00:08:44] It does phrase a little bit as we get older and the old testes,

[00:08:48] you know,

[00:08:48] drop a little bit.

[00:08:50] Um,

[00:08:50] and it could be related to that.

[00:08:52] So that made some sort of sense.

[00:08:54] 50 something by then.

[00:08:56] Um,

[00:08:57] but also he said secondary,

[00:08:58] he would look at the,

[00:09:00] um,

[00:09:00] which recommend your ultrasound.

[00:09:02] So that's fantastic.

[00:09:03] Thank you for that.

[00:09:04] Went to the ultrasound.

[00:09:06] Now I've had several ultrasounds before.

[00:09:08] And,

[00:09:09] um,

[00:09:10] like a ruptured Michaelis tenure,

[00:09:11] for example.

[00:09:12] And on most occasions when you have them,

[00:09:15] even though the ultrasound guys are not the,

[00:09:17] they're not the experts,

[00:09:18] but they obviously have the knowledge and they seems that multiple scans

[00:09:22] depending on what area they're looking at.

[00:09:24] And that was probably the first time I knew something was wrong because

[00:09:27] they were very quiet and no humor.

[00:09:31] And it was very much like at the end of it,

[00:09:33] rather than saying your GP might get in contact with you or something like

[00:09:36] that it was very much the GP will be in contact with you within days.

[00:09:41] And I thought,

[00:09:41] bloody hell.

[00:09:42] Um,

[00:09:44] so that the GP was,

[00:09:45] and to be fair,

[00:09:46] from this stage onwards,

[00:09:47] absolutely brilliant.

[00:09:49] So GP called me in,

[00:09:51] said,

[00:09:51] look,

[00:09:51] there's some things we're not sure about here.

[00:09:53] We need to get further inspection.

[00:09:55] We're going to,

[00:09:55] um,

[00:09:56] refer you to the particular expertise,

[00:09:58] the expert department in the university college in London.

[00:10:02] Um,

[00:10:03] but I put me within weeks,

[00:10:04] went to see the consultant,

[00:10:05] a woman again,

[00:10:06] this time,

[00:10:07] excellent consultant though,

[00:10:08] but not the most emotional.

[00:10:10] So she started to explain the process,

[00:10:12] what it could be,

[00:10:14] the benefits of going under the night or not.

[00:10:18] And that again,

[00:10:19] was a bit of a shock because I think at that point,

[00:10:21] you still,

[00:10:22] I was still thinking I was relatively invincible,

[00:10:25] quite fit,

[00:10:26] quite healthy.

[00:10:27] So it's not going to be that,

[00:10:29] but it absolutely was.

[00:10:30] Um,

[00:10:31] and where it gets slightly humorous is she was explaining the operation and

[00:10:35] what could happen.

[00:10:36] And,

[00:10:37] you know,

[00:10:37] you could even have your,

[00:10:38] don't worry.

[00:10:39] Cause you can have your testes or the testes replaced with a plastic

[00:10:42] testee.

[00:10:43] I carried on talking.

[00:10:44] I was like,

[00:10:45] Whoa,

[00:10:46] hold on a minute.

[00:10:47] What did you just say?

[00:10:49] I said,

[00:10:49] you need to slow down a little bit there.

[00:10:51] And,

[00:10:52] um,

[00:10:52] the nurse who was actually supporting us completely burst out laughing at

[00:10:55] the time,

[00:10:55] but that was quite a big thing to take.

[00:10:58] Um,

[00:10:59] her recommendation was to go under the knife anyway,

[00:11:02] because you could leave it and monitor it,

[00:11:04] but then potentially it could get worse.

[00:11:06] So I went with the decision and,

[00:11:09] um,

[00:11:10] decided to go for it.

[00:11:11] Um,

[00:11:11] but I think wrapped up in the masculinity as well as some of the other traumatic

[00:11:16] incidents.

[00:11:17] I felt,

[00:11:19] even though I thought I was okay within several weeks,

[00:11:21] I really dropped,

[00:11:23] you know,

[00:11:23] considerably.

[00:11:26] And,

[00:11:26] problem reflected and analyzing that.

[00:11:29] I knew it was part of the traumatic journey that had brought me down,

[00:11:32] but I also knew that the career was not fulfilling my need.

[00:11:37] Cause one of the reasons I went to,

[00:11:40] um,

[00:11:40] one of the reasons I continued in the civil service career was to help people change.

[00:11:45] And it got to the stage where I thought,

[00:11:47] I don't know if I'm helping anyone.

[00:11:49] I've been doing this job for X amount of years.

[00:11:51] And I couldn't tell you if I've helped 10 people,

[00:11:54] a thousand.

[00:11:54] I just had no idea.

[00:11:56] And that was really problematic for someone who had joined the service,

[00:11:59] who wanted to make a difference.

[00:12:01] I want it to change people's lives for the better.

[00:12:03] Really as simple as that.

[00:12:05] And that wasn't happening.

[00:12:07] Um,

[00:12:08] and at least through some of the initial stages in developing the IMA program,

[00:12:12] I knew I could help people and I could evidence it and I could see it in front of my very eyes.

[00:12:20] And to get that feeling was a phenomenal sensation.

[00:12:25] So even though I had some comfort with the,

[00:12:28] the,

[00:12:29] the role I was in,

[00:12:30] I knew I could not just blag it for another 10 years.

[00:12:35] I had to make that change.

[00:12:36] I initially made it part time and I did the IMA work for around.

[00:12:42] About a year and a half,

[00:12:44] two years part time.

[00:12:45] And then I made the final leap,

[00:12:47] uh,

[00:12:47] early this year with the opportunity to leave the civil service,

[00:12:50] part of the central government come,

[00:12:53] um,

[00:12:54] constriction,

[00:12:54] if you like,

[00:12:55] uh,

[00:12:55] announced by,

[00:12:56] I think Boris Johnson originally,

[00:12:57] however long ago that was.

[00:12:58] Um,

[00:12:59] and then slightly watered down by Richie Sunak.

[00:13:01] And I think he's pretty much going to continue under the new,

[00:13:04] uh,

[00:13:04] the new government.

[00:13:05] Sorry.

[00:13:06] So yeah,

[00:13:07] a bit of a long winded answer there,

[00:13:08] but that's one of the reasons why I knew I couldn't continue,

[00:13:11] um,

[00:13:12] just ticking the boxes.

[00:13:13] It would have,

[00:13:14] it would have,

[00:13:15] you know,

[00:13:15] not literally,

[00:13:15] the new government would have killed me.

[00:13:17] Wow.

[00:13:18] There's a lot in there.

[00:13:20] Um,

[00:13:23] where do I start with questions?

[00:13:27] I mean,

[00:13:28] the only thing I would like to say,

[00:13:29] Volker,

[00:13:30] is prevention.

[00:13:32] In this case,

[00:13:33] particularly with the,

[00:13:34] the testes example,

[00:13:36] it's things easily preventable,

[00:13:39] easily treated,

[00:13:40] incredibly low risk of returning.

[00:13:42] So it's about being active and preventative.

[00:13:45] If you wait too long,

[00:13:46] you are in a bit of trouble.

[00:13:48] And I know men don't generally like this,

[00:13:49] but that preventative aspect is,

[00:13:51] is absolutely right.

[00:13:53] Yeah.

[00:13:54] Men don't like to talk about these things,

[00:13:55] right?

[00:13:56] We,

[00:13:57] we,

[00:13:57] we don't,

[00:13:57] I mean,

[00:13:58] um,

[00:13:59] so totally off topic and I got targeted yesterday on Facebook.

[00:14:03] Sorry.

[00:14:04] It just popped into my head.

[00:14:06] Um,

[00:14:06] that's why I lost his podcast.

[00:14:07] I got targeted yesterday on,

[00:14:10] on Facebook.

[00:14:10] And I don't know for what,

[00:14:12] why Facebook decided to target me on that.

[00:14:15] But the,

[00:14:16] did you know that you can have plastic surgery?

[00:14:19] If your scrotum gets a little bit soggy,

[00:14:21] that you can tighten it.

[00:14:23] I got targeted with that yesterday.

[00:14:25] And I watched that video of her,

[00:14:28] for say GP.

[00:14:29] I don't actually know if she was UK or US based.

[00:14:31] It felt yes,

[00:14:32] but she probably was UK based.

[00:14:34] And it was probably one of the worst ads I've seen.

[00:14:37] The way she described it was awful.

[00:14:39] She wasn't salesy.

[00:14:40] And,

[00:14:41] um,

[00:14:43] yeah,

[00:14:43] it was just horrid.

[00:14:45] I would not book an appointment.

[00:14:47] I just,

[00:14:48] just forget my,

[00:14:50] that is probably linked to the same cremested muscle.

[00:14:53] Exactly the same thing.

[00:14:54] Because when I did a bit of research on that,

[00:14:56] I then got some terrible kind of googly or different type of ads as well.

[00:15:00] For something simple,

[00:15:01] something similar.

[00:15:02] So it's not off topic at all.

[00:15:03] It's definitely related.

[00:15:06] I don't know why I got it,

[00:15:07] but yeah,

[00:15:08] I found it cringed.

[00:15:09] But what was the subtitle didn't match?

[00:15:11] So for an ad to go out and the subtitle wasn't right.

[00:15:14] I was like,

[00:15:16] yes,

[00:15:17] sorry that,

[00:15:18] that,

[00:15:19] um,

[00:15:20] that,

[00:15:20] that just popped into my head.

[00:15:21] I watched that yesterday.

[00:15:22] I found that interesting,

[00:15:23] but yeah,

[00:15:24] I mean,

[00:15:24] men,

[00:15:25] men don't like to talk about it.

[00:15:27] Um,

[00:15:29] so I'm,

[00:15:29] I'm more interested in the,

[00:15:30] in the martial arts.

[00:15:31] Where's the martial arts coming from?

[00:15:34] Yeah.

[00:15:34] So the martial arts have always had a level of consistency for me,

[00:15:39] even during periods where I was challenged,

[00:15:43] there has been a level of consistency for the last 40 years that has rid pretty much most of these crisis,

[00:15:52] crises.

[00:15:53] Probably the example I gave of the condensed traumatic experiences that was,

[00:15:58] you know,

[00:15:58] you find whether challenging.

[00:16:00] Um,

[00:16:00] but if I look at things like,

[00:16:02] I don't know,

[00:16:02] you know,

[00:16:02] look at some of the values.

[00:16:03] So I started my first martial art,

[00:16:07] a South Korean martial art called Tang Soo Do.

[00:16:10] And I was 16 at the time.

[00:16:13] Right.

[00:16:13] 16 or 15 actually.

[00:16:15] And,

[00:16:15] um,

[00:16:16] I remember quite early thinking,

[00:16:20] not that I was necessarily bullied or anything like that,

[00:16:22] or,

[00:16:23] or felt I had to get revenge on anyone.

[00:16:24] I'm going to get martial arts.

[00:16:26] I'm going to do this sort of thing.

[00:16:27] But I was still quite young.

[00:16:28] And there was a little bit of me that still thought,

[00:16:30] well,

[00:16:30] if I learned the martial arts,

[00:16:32] if anyone met us with me,

[00:16:33] you know,

[00:16:33] I'll just,

[00:16:34] you know,

[00:16:34] see how flexible I am.

[00:16:35] Um,

[00:16:37] and so it was a little bit of that.

[00:16:39] And I remember quite early,

[00:16:40] my instructor saying,

[00:16:43] you know,

[00:16:44] making it clear what martial arts are for,

[00:16:46] their,

[00:16:46] their historical nature,

[00:16:47] that relaxation,

[00:16:49] self-defense.

[00:16:51] And,

[00:16:51] and if any one of his students he finds using them inappropriate,

[00:16:55] he'll beat them up themselves.

[00:16:58] And I thought,

[00:16:59] I thought he was joking.

[00:17:01] He definitely wasn't.

[00:17:02] He was quite a serious guy.

[00:17:04] Um,

[00:17:05] but I mean,

[00:17:06] jokes,

[00:17:06] jokes apart.

[00:17:10] Prior to that.

[00:17:12] Well,

[00:17:12] not so much prior to that.

[00:17:13] Let me just take a step forward.

[00:17:14] I did that martial arts for about seven,

[00:17:16] eight months.

[00:17:16] So not a huge amount of time.

[00:17:18] And then the next martial arts,

[00:17:19] I went into something called Lao Gah Kung Fu,

[00:17:21] which is a more of a traditional,

[00:17:23] uh,

[00:17:24] martial arts.

[00:17:25] We were sort of classed around the traditional animal forms.

[00:17:27] So martial artists will know what I'm talking about.

[00:17:29] And that maybe most other people won't find basic animal forms,

[00:17:33] uh,

[00:17:33] from this particular Kung Fu style.

[00:17:36] And this is where up to that,

[00:17:38] I was a little bit of a rogue,

[00:17:40] if not the worst,

[00:17:41] but you know,

[00:17:42] a little bit of a chip on your shoulder thinking,

[00:17:44] you know,

[00:17:44] particularly people are disrespecting you or insulting you.

[00:17:47] Sometimes they were,

[00:17:48] sometimes they weren't,

[00:17:49] but you know,

[00:17:50] you're a bit angry,

[00:17:51] you want to defend yourself.

[00:17:52] Why are you looking at me like that?

[00:17:53] And all these kinds of sort of crazy things at the time.

[00:17:56] And it's probably linked to your emotions and moving impulsive behavior,

[00:17:59] all that sort of stuff.

[00:18:01] Um,

[00:18:01] but certainly with Kung Fu,

[00:18:03] when I was my first long-term martial arts,

[00:18:06] I'd gone from this guy who was a little bit,

[00:18:08] maybe lacking a bit of confidence,

[00:18:10] but didn't realize it.

[00:18:11] And,

[00:18:12] you know,

[00:18:12] getting yourself in a little bit of arguments and stuff now and again,

[00:18:14] and then maybe even to some physical confrontations.

[00:18:17] And again,

[00:18:17] most times thinking you're,

[00:18:18] you were absolutely right.

[00:18:20] And sometimes maybe,

[00:18:21] but probably most I'm not sure.

[00:18:23] There's potentially other alternatives.

[00:18:25] But once I developed that confidence in the martial arts,

[00:18:29] particularly Lao Gah in this case,

[00:18:31] I never got into any kind of them confrontations at all.

[00:18:35] And I think some of that was to do with the confidence that I then had.

[00:18:39] Some of that to do with the respect for the martial arts.

[00:18:42] Some of that to do with your respect for yourself and others.

[00:18:45] Because as the impact that I had long-term,

[00:18:48] I mean,

[00:18:48] to cut a long story short,

[00:18:50] I had,

[00:18:51] let's say,

[00:18:52] I don't know,

[00:18:52] the few years prior to that,

[00:18:55] I was involved in 20 arguments and three physical confrontations or something like that.

[00:19:00] Over the next 20 years,

[00:19:02] I wasn't involved in anything,

[00:19:04] nothing at all.

[00:19:05] You just had that confidence.

[00:19:07] You always had that bigger picture view as well.

[00:19:09] Always see things coming a little quicker as well.

[00:19:11] And that,

[00:19:12] that was really beneficial.

[00:19:14] So that's one of the aspects,

[00:19:16] the values and respect for others that has been consistent for me.

[00:19:23] I think also I talked about its benefits through crises,

[00:19:28] when the pressure's on.

[00:19:30] And I think if we just isolated the COVID pandemic period,

[00:19:36] it was one of the things I could still do while we were locked down.

[00:19:40] And wonderful Boris said that we could at least go outside

[00:19:43] and train and things like that.

[00:19:45] What a guy,

[00:19:47] you know,

[00:19:47] happy with that.

[00:19:49] I mean,

[00:19:49] what I was happy with,

[00:19:50] but that's another story.

[00:19:53] So that was really helpful.

[00:19:55] Where it didn't quite fulfill the,

[00:19:59] what it had traditionally,

[00:20:00] was I had obviously no access to the gyms,

[00:20:02] the dojos,

[00:20:04] which is a kind of place of immersive learning.

[00:20:07] So I was doing them with martial arts at home,

[00:20:10] but it didn't quite have the same impact.

[00:20:13] Partly because I was getting older anyway,

[00:20:14] but partly not having that,

[00:20:15] being able to go to different classes,

[00:20:17] because I was going to one Muay Thai class,

[00:20:19] through family,

[00:20:21] started MMA,

[00:20:23] sorry,

[00:20:23] started Jiu Jitsu,

[00:20:24] part of my MMA training.

[00:20:25] And I had a freestyle class I went to as well,

[00:20:28] as well as doing stuff at home.

[00:20:30] So while I was still doing stuff at home,

[00:20:32] it didn't have the same impact.

[00:20:34] But in many ways,

[00:20:36] martial arts still helped save me,

[00:20:38] alongside some spiritual aspects as well,

[00:20:40] without a doubt,

[00:20:41] is because I started to then rehash some of my old training techniques,

[00:20:46] from way back when,

[00:20:48] the same Tang Su Du and Lao Gah talked about,

[00:20:51] incorporated with some of the new martial arts,

[00:20:53] that I'd been learning,

[00:20:54] some of the new techniques as well.

[00:20:56] And I started to incorporate and develop them together.

[00:20:59] And without knowing at the time,

[00:21:01] that was the first sort of seedings really,

[00:21:04] of my integrated martial arts method.

[00:21:07] So as that started to develop,

[00:21:09] still during the lockdown,

[00:21:11] other people started to sort of see,

[00:21:13] well,

[00:21:13] hold on a minute,

[00:21:13] we're in the middle of a crisis here.

[00:21:16] And you're sort of bouncing on your toes,

[00:21:19] you're making jokes.

[00:21:21] We've got a prison to get,

[00:21:23] I mean,

[00:21:23] this,

[00:21:23] you know,

[00:21:25] vaccination in immediately.

[00:21:26] You can imagine the risk context at a prison,

[00:21:30] of catching COVID,

[00:21:31] with sort of 3,000 people in this sort of condensed,

[00:21:35] some occasions,

[00:21:36] probably can say that now,

[00:21:37] some occasions,

[00:21:38] slightly unhealthy environments.

[00:21:40] Yeah.

[00:21:41] And that was really,

[00:21:43] the start of me actually sharing some of them things.

[00:21:47] And they were all middle-aged men in general,

[00:21:49] middle managers,

[00:21:50] leaders,

[00:21:51] directors,

[00:21:52] that type of space,

[00:21:54] under pressure,

[00:21:55] under stress,

[00:21:56] no gyms anymore to go to,

[00:21:58] no classes.

[00:21:59] And that was the first time I started sharing some of the things that I was learning.

[00:22:04] And then we started to see how that can help.

[00:22:07] And that was coming back to the same point that I made,

[00:22:09] that the feeling that I got when I noticed that some of these people were doing these,

[00:22:14] what I thought at the time was quite basic,

[00:22:16] was the early stage of the program.

[00:22:18] And then coming back to me weeks later and saying,

[00:22:20] God,

[00:22:20] you know,

[00:22:21] I feel much better now.

[00:22:22] And I'm,

[00:22:22] I'm getting up with a bit of spring in my step.

[00:22:24] And the wife's noticed my,

[00:22:25] you know,

[00:22:25] I'm making jokes again.

[00:22:27] And,

[00:22:27] you know,

[00:22:28] them sort of measures and changes in a relative short period of time in many cases were just,

[00:22:34] yeah,

[00:22:34] they were fantastic.

[00:22:36] And I think just a final part,

[00:22:38] Volker is,

[00:22:39] yeah,

[00:22:40] the martial arts.

[00:22:41] I've been doing it for 40 years.

[00:22:43] They've been around for at least three and a half,

[00:22:46] 3000 years.

[00:22:48] Hank around would be the first kind of example of mixed martial arts in the Olympics.

[00:22:52] The,

[00:22:52] the traditional Olympics,

[00:22:54] which was a bit of grappling and wrestling mixed.

[00:22:56] And not only the context of combat,

[00:23:01] but the,

[00:23:02] the,

[00:23:03] the increased mindfulness,

[00:23:05] the developmental plasticity that's built into all martial arts,

[00:23:09] consciously or unconsciously.

[00:23:11] They've been having this concept of wellbeing thousands of years.

[00:23:16] So why not use that concept within our contemporary aspects?

[00:23:21] Because wellbeing is kind of seen as a quite a new topic.

[00:23:23] And why for this?

[00:23:25] It's not for the martial arts.

[00:23:27] It's been absolutely around for absolute ages.

[00:23:30] So for me,

[00:23:31] holding onto that from the traditional martial arts,

[00:23:35] as well as some of the new strength,

[00:23:37] positive psychology,

[00:23:39] probably from the last 20,

[00:23:40] 30 years,

[00:23:41] the integration of both the traditional and modern forms of martial arts.

[00:23:46] Yeah.

[00:23:47] I've been real consistent benefit for me,

[00:23:50] certainly.

[00:23:51] And,

[00:23:51] and,

[00:23:52] and hopefully others as well.

[00:23:53] The last few years,

[00:23:56] so,

[00:23:56] um,

[00:23:57] when you started sort of sharing your techniques,

[00:24:01] so was it with it?

[00:24:02] It was with colleagues.

[00:24:03] Yes.

[00:24:03] Work colleagues,

[00:24:04] civil service colleagues initially.

[00:24:05] Yes.

[00:24:06] So,

[00:24:07] so was that you like sort of showing them or were you recording videos and

[00:24:11] sharing it with them?

[00:24:13] Oh yeah.

[00:24:13] So a little bit of both really.

[00:24:15] So at first I just,

[00:24:17] just was verbally sharing and said,

[00:24:18] Oh,

[00:24:18] well,

[00:24:19] I,

[00:24:19] you know,

[00:24:19] I get up and I do this.

[00:24:20] I do the stretching and I do that.

[00:24:23] Um,

[00:24:24] and I suppose it comes back to people's learning style,

[00:24:26] doesn't it?

[00:24:26] But I think the first two colleagues,

[00:24:28] they said,

[00:24:28] yeah,

[00:24:28] absolutely.

[00:24:28] I'll go ahead and do that.

[00:24:30] And they more or less did,

[00:24:32] but probably not quite as accurate potentially,

[00:24:35] but they more or less did and got some good benefits from it.

[00:24:37] Um,

[00:24:38] but then,

[00:24:39] you know,

[00:24:39] partly because I neurological thinking style for some people,

[00:24:42] they couldn't remember it at all.

[00:24:44] I can't remember what you said,

[00:24:45] or they did something completely different.

[00:24:46] Um,

[00:24:47] so that was probably the first time I just said a kind of like a WhatsApp video,

[00:24:51] you know,

[00:24:52] terrible sound,

[00:24:53] terrible shooting,

[00:24:54] but I just did it in a video format backed up with audio format as well.

[00:24:58] And that seemed to suit this particular individual and a couple,

[00:25:01] uh,

[00:25:02] following that.

[00:25:03] So yeah,

[00:25:04] it was a very basic amateur start.

[00:25:07] Um,

[00:25:08] but the more video audio form definitely suits most people.

[00:25:13] And then that started to become the dominant method.

[00:25:16] Um,

[00:25:17] but a bit more structural after that,

[00:25:19] you know,

[00:25:19] into,

[00:25:20] you know,

[00:25:21] split into modules and things like that.

[00:25:22] But that was sort of several months down the line for us that I do now.

[00:25:29] Hello folks,

[00:25:30] it's Volker here.

[00:25:31] I hope you enjoy this week's episode.

[00:25:34] As you know,

[00:25:34] I coach executives,

[00:25:36] whether that is for leadership skills or sales leadership skills,

[00:25:40] or working as a therapist too.

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[00:25:47] or become a better version of yourself.

[00:25:50] So you will be more productive and have more time for your family.

[00:25:54] Whatever it is,

[00:25:56] you can join my client list of people from General Electric,

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[00:26:03] Book a free exploratory call via my website,

[00:26:06] www.opnat.us.

[00:26:10] That's O-B-N-A-T dot U-S.

[00:26:14] Now back to the show.

[00:26:19] Um,

[00:26:21] you sort of mentioned about how,

[00:26:23] um,

[00:26:24] you know,

[00:26:24] during lockdown,

[00:26:25] you sort of went back to,

[00:26:27] you know,

[00:26:27] practice the techniques that you'd learn,

[00:26:30] um,

[00:26:31] sort of all,

[00:26:32] you know,

[00:26:32] decades ago.

[00:26:34] Um,

[00:26:35] I mean,

[00:26:36] like lockdown was a big period of reflection,

[00:26:38] I think for all of us.

[00:26:40] Um,

[00:26:41] I mean,

[00:26:41] do you think that,

[00:26:44] I mean,

[00:26:45] I,

[00:26:45] you know,

[00:26:45] this,

[00:26:45] this is proper sort of cod psychology on my part,

[00:26:49] but that sort of like,

[00:26:50] you know,

[00:26:53] doing those movements again,

[00:26:55] did that kind of bring you right back to,

[00:26:59] I mean,

[00:27:00] did it kind of,

[00:27:01] I don't know,

[00:27:02] unlock anything?

[00:27:04] I mean,

[00:27:04] you know,

[00:27:04] you sort of talked about,

[00:27:06] you know,

[00:27:07] you,

[00:27:07] you were a lot more Zen than,

[00:27:09] you know,

[00:27:09] working with.

[00:27:11] I mean,

[00:27:11] do you think that was part of the process of,

[00:27:14] of almost like filtering through,

[00:27:17] um,

[00:27:18] well,

[00:27:18] yeah,

[00:27:18] your life,

[00:27:19] good and bad?

[00:27:20] Yeah,

[00:27:20] I think it was a bit of that.

[00:27:22] I think particularly for me,

[00:27:25] training at home,

[00:27:27] it was great and it was helpful,

[00:27:29] but it was something missing,

[00:27:30] you know,

[00:27:31] and I thought it's probably a bit of social,

[00:27:33] there's a little bit of social aspect as well.

[00:27:35] And some of its effectiveness.

[00:27:36] Yeah.

[00:27:37] Because obviously,

[00:27:38] um,

[00:27:38] just training at home while it was kind of okay,

[00:27:41] and it's definitely better than nothing.

[00:27:43] I wasn't getting the same sort of physical results for starters.

[00:27:47] And probably just as important as I wasn't getting no real enjoyment from it.

[00:27:51] It was a little bit formulaic and,

[00:27:54] wasn't really getting that buzz,

[00:27:56] if you like.

[00:27:57] And going back to the traditional martial arts,

[00:28:00] at least gave me some of that enjoyment.

[00:28:03] So I don't know,

[00:28:04] highlighting your point,

[00:28:05] if that was because of the past experience,

[00:28:09] the more positive association with that period,

[00:28:11] which was quite positive and joy.

[00:28:13] I absolutely love the martial arts.

[00:28:15] Um,

[00:28:15] you know,

[00:28:16] it's always,

[00:28:16] you know,

[00:28:17] right back to sort of Bruce Lee and onto Jackie Chan.

[00:28:19] I've always been into the martial arts,

[00:28:20] probably through my brother,

[00:28:21] uh,

[00:28:22] in the main initially.

[00:28:24] So,

[00:28:24] yeah,

[00:28:24] I think the first thing was definitely the enjoyment,

[00:28:27] you know,

[00:28:28] enjoy that.

[00:28:29] Some of them,

[00:28:30] some of the techniques haven't continued,

[00:28:32] certainly not necessarily into the program,

[00:28:34] because as far as the effectiveness goes,

[00:28:37] as far as the changes that middle-aged men either need or require,

[00:28:42] they probably weren't that efficient.

[00:28:44] But that initial burst was probably through the humor and just that positive reflection from the past.

[00:28:51] Um,

[00:28:52] but then moving on,

[00:28:53] then it was a bit more formulaic,

[00:28:55] not formulaic,

[00:28:56] but a bit more structural after that,

[00:28:58] really working out exactly what worked,

[00:29:00] a bit more analytical,

[00:29:01] really,

[00:29:01] after that.

[00:29:02] But certainly initially that enjoyment was vital.

[00:29:06] I think from what you described,

[00:29:08] the,

[00:29:08] the,

[00:29:09] the program gave people a lot of confidence,

[00:29:11] right?

[00:29:11] And I think,

[00:29:11] and I think even from a social aspect,

[00:29:13] although you say it's not necessarily social,

[00:29:17] it probably would have given them hope as well,

[00:29:19] right?

[00:29:19] This,

[00:29:20] this connection point.

[00:29:21] I don't know how often you run the sessions once a week,

[00:29:23] twice a week,

[00:29:23] right?

[00:29:24] For,

[00:29:24] for people to,

[00:29:25] to get involved.

[00:29:27] Um,

[00:29:27] so,

[00:29:28] so why did you focus on,

[00:29:29] on middle-aged men?

[00:29:32] Yeah,

[00:29:32] there was a,

[00:29:33] yeah,

[00:29:33] there was a few things there.

[00:29:35] I mean,

[00:29:35] yeah,

[00:29:35] there is a definitely social aspect.

[00:29:37] And even though the program is kind of a one-to-one program,

[00:29:40] we do have a,

[00:29:42] well,

[00:29:42] we have the opportunity for,

[00:29:43] um,

[00:29:44] for clients to join,

[00:29:45] uh,

[00:29:46] shared group program as well,

[00:29:48] which we run every two weeks.

[00:29:50] Some people not interested.

[00:29:52] They're more than happy to just carry on with the one-to-one stuff,

[00:29:54] but there's certainly a group.

[00:29:56] Um,

[00:29:58] I was going to say mainly single members,

[00:30:00] probably not the case.

[00:30:01] Actually,

[00:30:02] there's certainly a group that do benefit more from that group interaction.

[00:30:07] They really,

[00:30:08] really seem to get a lot from that and learn a lot from it.

[00:30:12] Particularly,

[00:30:13] I suppose like anything,

[00:30:13] it's often the shared challenges,

[00:30:15] isn't it?

[00:30:15] Yeah.

[00:30:16] Shut the chat.

[00:30:17] It's a lot about the shared challenges and you often feel you're on your own.

[00:30:20] I don't know why that is,

[00:30:21] but when you have these problems or these issues,

[00:30:24] whether it's,

[00:30:24] let's say relationships or even some health issues,

[00:30:28] um,

[00:30:29] I can't think of anything else at the moment.

[00:30:30] It often feels like you're on your own.

[00:30:33] And one of the things where that,

[00:30:35] the group aspect seems to be beneficial is that get together.

[00:30:39] Sometimes that sharing of common issues that seems to be really beneficial.

[00:30:46] Um,

[00:30:46] yeah.

[00:30:47] For a lot of the men.

[00:30:48] So,

[00:30:50] uh,

[00:30:50] I mean,

[00:30:52] the kind of guys that get in touch with you,

[00:30:55] are they,

[00:30:56] I mean,

[00:30:56] does it range from people that,

[00:30:58] you know,

[00:30:58] have been quite sporty in the past or are still sporty to people that have never done anything like this before?

[00:31:05] Um,

[00:31:06] I mean,

[00:31:06] cause I think I've probably mentioned this before.

[00:31:10] Um,

[00:31:11] I went,

[00:31:12] well,

[00:31:12] went on my first like snowboarding holiday in my late,

[00:31:16] yeah,

[00:31:16] I think I remember here.

[00:31:18] And,

[00:31:19] you know,

[00:31:20] and it's just this thing of like learning something completely new at that age.

[00:31:24] And,

[00:31:25] you know,

[00:31:25] and that's a huge confidence boost.

[00:31:27] Um,

[00:31:29] so,

[00:31:29] so yeah,

[00:31:30] yeah.

[00:31:30] You know,

[00:31:30] is there,

[00:31:31] is there sort of quite a range?

[00:31:33] Yes,

[00:31:34] there is a,

[00:31:34] there's a massive range really.

[00:31:36] Um,

[00:31:37] and yeah,

[00:31:38] it goes from,

[00:31:39] I suppose at the top end would be people that,

[00:31:43] uh,

[00:31:43] were up to quite recent,

[00:31:45] have been actively involved in sports and generally being quite fit,

[00:31:49] usually done some sort of martial arts before,

[00:31:52] can be a little while ago,

[00:31:53] can be more recent,

[00:31:54] but maybe they can't do it at the moment because they can't get to the gym.

[00:31:58] You know,

[00:31:58] they finish at certain time.

[00:32:00] They have to drive in a few hours to the gym and it's just all a bit long.

[00:32:04] Um,

[00:32:05] and this is a way that they could maybe,

[00:32:06] for example,

[00:32:07] join,

[00:32:07] uh,

[00:32:08] through the hybrid context,

[00:32:09] you know,

[00:32:09] working at home or,

[00:32:12] um,

[00:32:12] they could,

[00:32:13] um,

[00:32:14] do it before work,

[00:32:15] after work,

[00:32:16] that type of thing.

[00:32:17] So there's,

[00:32:17] there's,

[00:32:18] there's a bit of that call.

[00:32:18] Um,

[00:32:20] then there's a group that small group to be fair,

[00:32:22] that have never done anything,

[00:32:25] never done any fitness at all.

[00:32:26] And they just want to try something completely new and different.

[00:32:31] Um,

[00:32:32] and also what I find,

[00:32:33] and this is where a lot of our free resources come in,

[00:32:36] is a lot of people with other ailments or issues that just want some basic knowledge and information to help improve their health and well-being.

[00:32:51] Um,

[00:32:51] and then the final group is probably,

[00:32:54] I mean,

[00:32:54] this is quite generalized,

[00:32:56] but the final group is your kind of leaders,

[00:32:59] like I spoke about before,

[00:33:00] transitional leaders,

[00:33:02] under pressure,

[00:33:02] high stress jobs.

[00:33:04] that's the kind of next stage.

[00:33:06] They usually are more program orientated.

[00:33:09] Um,

[00:33:10] so it's a kind of mixture between that professional program orientated need,

[00:33:14] but that wider everyday support and engagement,

[00:33:17] because partly we know that men don't engage in these types of things,

[00:33:21] particularly around the well-being.

[00:33:22] And I don't know if you guys saw the recent Movember report.

[00:33:27] Um,

[00:33:28] yeah,

[00:33:29] it's made shocking reading though.

[00:33:30] You might not be amazingly surprised by it,

[00:33:32] but,

[00:33:33] um,

[00:33:33] they concluded that 130 something thousand men die early from preventable diseases.

[00:33:40] And in the context of the free resources,

[00:33:42] I think it's like 80,

[00:33:44] 182%,

[00:33:45] something like that are more likely to die early in depraved regions.

[00:33:49] So that group,

[00:33:50] we always want to make sure there's easy access to a range of free resources that they can access.

[00:33:57] Um,

[00:33:58] you know,

[00:33:58] obviously they want to go further and then join some of the paid stuff.

[00:34:01] No problem with that,

[00:34:02] of course,

[00:34:03] but it's also just making sure there's that range of free resources for that group that kind of struggle maybe to get access to this type of material and support.

[00:34:12] Yeah.

[00:34:13] yeah.

[00:34:14] And,

[00:34:14] and yeah,

[00:34:15] you've really touched on something that where,

[00:34:19] you know,

[00:34:20] a lot of,

[00:34:20] you know,

[00:34:21] I think a lot of,

[00:34:22] of the problem amongst men,

[00:34:24] you know,

[00:34:24] obviously we talked about the fact that we're not very good at talking or asking for help.

[00:34:29] Um,

[00:34:29] but you know,

[00:34:30] sometimes a lot of the support you need is unaffordable to,

[00:34:35] you know,

[00:34:35] to bar swates of people,

[00:34:37] whether that is counseling or,

[00:34:39] you know,

[00:34:39] I mean,

[00:34:40] there are affordable gym memberships,

[00:34:41] but yeah,

[00:34:43] you know,

[00:34:43] it is,

[00:34:44] it can be quite,

[00:34:46] um,

[00:34:47] exclusive,

[00:34:48] you know,

[00:34:48] and I mean that in the negative light aspect,

[00:34:51] as opposed to,

[00:34:52] yeah.

[00:34:53] And I think it's linked to things like confidence and stuff as well,

[00:34:56] because maybe if you've been doing something like that historically and up to quite recently,

[00:35:01] you're probably prepared and ready for that.

[00:35:03] If you're someone,

[00:35:03] maybe you started to lack a bit of confidence,

[00:35:05] your body's a bit out of shape.

[00:35:06] You haven't been to that gym for 10,

[00:35:08] 15 years or five,

[00:35:09] 10,

[00:35:09] whatever to go back into is,

[00:35:11] is really,

[00:35:12] is really daunting.

[00:35:14] And I just wanted to add,

[00:35:15] by the way,

[00:35:16] with that Movember report,

[00:35:17] just to highlight one of the other core factors was men not attending basic health screenings,

[00:35:24] you know,

[00:35:24] that we,

[00:35:25] you know,

[00:35:25] different periods during our middle age as well.

[00:35:27] Probably not a massive surprise to us.

[00:35:29] Yeah.

[00:35:29] I mean,

[00:35:30] you know,

[00:35:30] and that is something that we've,

[00:35:31] you know,

[00:35:31] talked about a lot is that,

[00:35:33] you know,

[00:35:34] women have all these touch points throughout their lives,

[00:35:38] you know,

[00:35:39] with,

[00:35:39] with sort of the menstrual cycle,

[00:35:42] uh,

[00:35:42] you know,

[00:35:43] when you get pregnant,

[00:35:44] um,

[00:35:44] you know,

[00:35:45] and I think,

[00:35:45] um,

[00:35:46] oh,

[00:35:47] so I've,

[00:35:47] I've forgotten the term,

[00:35:49] uh,

[00:35:50] but yes,

[00:35:50] so,

[00:35:50] you know,

[00:35:50] checks of cervical cancer,

[00:35:52] trying to find the right,

[00:35:53] the right praises to,

[00:35:56] and,

[00:35:56] uh,

[00:35:57] but yeah,

[00:35:57] and breast screening,

[00:35:59] whereas,

[00:36:00] you know,

[00:36:00] as,

[00:36:00] as you sort of said with men,

[00:36:02] we'll basically leave it several months and thing.

[00:36:06] Actually,

[00:36:06] I better get that checked out.

[00:36:08] Um,

[00:36:08] yeah,

[00:36:08] very much.

[00:36:09] And,

[00:36:09] and,

[00:36:09] you know,

[00:36:10] and then when you put on top the,

[00:36:11] how difficult it is to get an appointment anyway,

[00:36:14] you know,

[00:36:15] it's,

[00:36:16] yeah.

[00:36:17] Um,

[00:36:17] as I say,

[00:36:18] that is sort of something that we've,

[00:36:19] yeah,

[00:36:20] we've talked about a lot.

[00:36:21] And so,

[00:36:22] so your programs,

[00:36:24] are they both online and in person?

[00:36:29] Predominantly,

[00:36:29] predominantly online.

[00:36:31] I do do some in-person work,

[00:36:32] like with people within my area.

[00:36:34] So I,

[00:36:35] as I said,

[00:36:35] I'm from New York.

[00:36:36] So if you're in the heart and that's your preferred mode of engagement,

[00:36:41] then yes,

[00:36:42] but fundamentally nine,

[00:36:44] I think it's 88% are online.

[00:36:46] Right.

[00:36:47] So is,

[00:36:47] is there an online community?

[00:36:49] Um,

[00:36:50] I mean,

[00:36:50] I get,

[00:36:50] I guess sort of the thing that I was going to sort of come to is that,

[00:36:53] um,

[00:36:54] and again,

[00:36:54] it's something we've talked about is like,

[00:36:56] if you get a load of men together and say,

[00:36:58] right,

[00:36:58] you know,

[00:36:58] talk,

[00:36:59] talk about your feelings.

[00:37:00] It doesn't happen,

[00:37:01] but not always.

[00:37:02] No,

[00:37:03] if you sort of,

[00:37:05] yeah,

[00:37:06] you,

[00:37:06] when you're brought together by a common sort of goal or bond,

[00:37:10] then naturally suddenly you start to get these conversations.

[00:37:14] So,

[00:37:15] I mean,

[00:37:15] is that something that you see sort of online and,

[00:37:20] you know,

[00:37:21] and is that something that you tried to nurture or,

[00:37:24] you know,

[00:37:24] as it come as a sort of pleasant surprise?

[00:37:27] Yeah.

[00:37:28] I mean,

[00:37:28] probably as pleasant surprise because I think most of my direction initially was

[00:37:33] just individual one-to-one work.

[00:37:35] And then as the,

[00:37:38] the client base grew,

[00:37:40] I just thought,

[00:37:41] I mean,

[00:37:42] partly some more process reasons,

[00:37:44] really,

[00:37:44] I thought we'll have a group session as well.

[00:37:47] Um,

[00:37:47] and like a lot of these things,

[00:37:48] I didn't,

[00:37:49] I mean,

[00:37:49] I did facilitate some of the starting conversations,

[00:37:52] if you like,

[00:37:53] but it kind of took its own route really.

[00:37:55] And then the guys started to share some of their common issues,

[00:37:58] some,

[00:37:59] which I was relatively aware of that middle-aged men do go through and some,

[00:38:03] I absolutely wasn't.

[00:38:04] So I suppose I was learning quite a bit myself,

[00:38:06] but it's funny.

[00:38:08] Maybe I don't know if it's that,

[00:38:09] this is how the world's changed,

[00:38:10] but it seems that the online social conversations are more in depth than the face-to-face ones,

[00:38:20] which I was probably surprised about that.

[00:38:23] Yeah.

[00:38:23] Like David,

[00:38:23] that,

[00:38:24] that you asked,

[00:38:24] you know,

[00:38:25] whether unfit people can join us as well.

[00:38:28] Absolutely.

[00:38:29] A hundred percent.

[00:38:29] So it's a real range really.

[00:38:31] Um,

[00:38:32] for me,

[00:38:33] the main thing is through our courtesy consultation call that,

[00:38:37] you know,

[00:38:38] a relatively complex assessment,

[00:38:40] um,

[00:38:41] has to be applied.

[00:38:42] Obviously I want to make sure everyone's safe.

[00:38:44] Um,

[00:38:44] and then from there you should get a baseline of their needs and what level do you push in,

[00:38:51] in a nutshell,

[00:38:52] Volker,

[00:38:52] there's three sort of levels throughout each module,

[00:38:55] which should,

[00:38:57] I wouldn't say it covers absolutely everyone,

[00:38:59] but it should cover a very wide spectrum of,

[00:39:03] someone who hasn't trained for maybe 20 years.

[00:39:07] Yeah.

[00:39:07] Um,

[00:39:08] and maybe never done a martial art to someone who's,

[00:39:11] uh,

[00:39:12] at the other end,

[00:39:13] who's,

[00:39:13] you know,

[00:39:13] done various martial arts,

[00:39:15] strength and conditioning training,

[00:39:17] used to run marathons,

[00:39:19] um,

[00:39:20] and,

[00:39:21] and,

[00:39:21] and,

[00:39:21] and all sorts of buckle trading and all sorts of different things.

[00:39:24] So a relatively wide range,

[00:39:26] but it's only through a relatively compact assessment.

[00:39:29] Yeah.

[00:39:30] I will really be able to assess accurately.

[00:39:34] Um,

[00:39:34] if you're suitable for the,

[00:39:36] particularly the main programs being the total rejuvenation and mastery program,

[00:39:41] that's my main sort of blue ticket.

[00:39:42] Right.

[00:39:44] Yeah.

[00:39:45] I tried to make it as a joke for David,

[00:39:47] but David didn't pick up on it.

[00:39:48] So nevermind.

[00:39:52] but

[00:39:54] that's,

[00:39:55] that's,

[00:39:55] that's okay.

[00:39:55] They,

[00:39:55] you know,

[00:39:56] you can,

[00:39:56] you can,

[00:39:57] you can watch it back,

[00:39:58] David.

[00:39:58] And,

[00:39:58] uh,

[00:39:59] you,

[00:39:59] you see,

[00:39:59] you know,

[00:40:00] my German sense of humor,

[00:40:01] but I like actually what you say,

[00:40:03] because to be honest,

[00:40:04] um,

[00:40:05] I haven't done,

[00:40:06] for say any,

[00:40:08] very little martial arts.

[00:40:09] I used to do a bit of Tai Chi before the kids were born.

[00:40:12] Um,

[00:40:13] and,

[00:40:14] uh,

[00:40:14] you know,

[00:40:14] this,

[00:40:15] to be honest,

[00:40:15] you know,

[00:40:16] as I get into my,

[00:40:17] my middle age,

[00:40:17] I think martial arts is something I would probably pick up at some point.

[00:40:21] Um,

[00:40:22] I had a chance to do karate with my,

[00:40:23] my,

[00:40:25] but I never did because,

[00:40:27] you know,

[00:40:27] I thought,

[00:40:28] Oh,

[00:40:28] that's,

[00:40:28] that's more his thing.

[00:40:29] And,

[00:40:29] you know,

[00:40:29] he should be doing it rather than me doing it.

[00:40:32] But,

[00:40:32] uh,

[00:40:33] you beat him up every time.

[00:40:34] Yeah.

[00:40:35] He,

[00:40:36] he beats me up now.

[00:40:37] Trust me.

[00:40:38] yeah.

[00:40:39] You need to step up your game then,

[00:40:40] maybe Volker.

[00:40:41] Yeah.

[00:40:42] Because it's,

[00:40:42] it's never delayed,

[00:40:43] right?

[00:40:43] I think the message is never delayed to,

[00:40:46] to start it.

[00:40:46] Absolutely.

[00:40:47] So as I say,

[00:40:48] what Volker is saying is that,

[00:40:49] that basically,

[00:40:50] uh,

[00:40:50] we both need to get trained up and then get in the ring.

[00:40:53] Is that what you're saying,

[00:40:54] Volker?

[00:40:54] Yeah.

[00:40:55] That's why you learn martial arts,

[00:40:57] but correct me.

[00:40:58] No,

[00:40:59] absolutely not.

[00:41:00] You don't.

[00:41:01] I mean,

[00:41:01] there is a combat side to it.

[00:41:04] Um,

[00:41:04] and obviously for my middle,

[00:41:05] middle-aged men that that's not necessarily the case.

[00:41:07] None of them are going necessary into combat or going to be fighting anymore.

[00:41:11] Really,

[00:41:12] realistically.

[00:41:12] And that's fine,

[00:41:13] but they may still get the bonus of feeling like a bit of a,

[00:41:17] feeling quite fit and like confident.

[00:41:19] And then,

[00:41:20] and long as that confidence to get,

[00:41:21] you know,

[00:41:21] need to doing silly things.

[00:41:23] Um,

[00:41:24] that's,

[00:41:24] that's a nice way of getting,

[00:41:25] getting the benefits still from variety of martial arts.

[00:41:29] And,

[00:41:30] and I think that the confidence,

[00:41:31] I think is important,

[00:41:32] you know,

[00:41:33] middle age and,

[00:41:34] and,

[00:41:34] and I guess core strengths,

[00:41:35] right?

[00:41:35] As we get older,

[00:41:37] you know,

[00:41:37] as,

[00:41:37] as I always say,

[00:41:38] right,

[00:41:39] I'm more of a cardio person than a,

[00:41:41] than a weights person.

[00:41:42] Um,

[00:41:43] but I do weights just to be honest,

[00:41:45] it was my son who said,

[00:41:46] you know,

[00:41:47] you should do some weights,

[00:41:48] you know,

[00:41:48] you're,

[00:41:48] you're over 40.

[00:41:49] Um,

[00:41:50] and we all know we should,

[00:41:51] but you know,

[00:41:52] we,

[00:41:52] we don't necessarily do it.

[00:41:53] And,

[00:41:54] um,

[00:41:55] you know,

[00:41:55] I think things like martial arts can,

[00:41:57] can massively help this,

[00:41:58] you know,

[00:41:59] bone density and all that.

[00:42:01] Yeah.

[00:42:01] Absolutely.

[00:42:02] Uh,

[00:42:02] I found out something which this is probably,

[00:42:05] well,

[00:42:05] it might not be news to either of you,

[00:42:07] but,

[00:42:08] um,

[00:42:09] I sort of discovered something like literally in the last week,

[00:42:12] the muscle burns more calories than,

[00:42:17] well,

[00:42:17] basically.

[00:42:18] Yeah.

[00:42:19] The more muscular you are,

[00:42:21] the more calories you burn.

[00:42:23] Yeah.

[00:42:24] Absolutely.

[00:42:25] Yeah.

[00:42:25] We didn't know that.

[00:42:26] I didn't know that.

[00:42:28] Tater.

[00:42:31] Oh,

[00:42:32] hold on.

[00:42:32] You know,

[00:42:33] you know,

[00:42:35] knowledge out there.

[00:42:36] We can't have it all,

[00:42:36] you know,

[00:42:37] that's why we should share the knowledge.

[00:42:39] Yeah.

[00:42:39] Well,

[00:42:39] I did a T E at GCSE level and I got an E and then,

[00:42:43] and I got a double F in science.

[00:42:44] So,

[00:42:45] uh,

[00:42:45] that's not my,

[00:42:46] my forte.

[00:42:47] Um,

[00:42:48] sorry.

[00:42:48] One,

[00:42:48] one last question from me,

[00:42:50] Dave.

[00:42:51] Um,

[00:42:51] yeah.

[00:42:51] So how much of the program is focused on,

[00:42:55] I mean,

[00:42:55] he sort of talked about psychology,

[00:42:57] you know,

[00:42:58] how much of it is,

[00:42:58] is kind of mindset and how much of is it active?

[00:43:02] Oh,

[00:43:02] and actually,

[00:43:03] before I forget,

[00:43:03] I just wanted to make,

[00:43:04] uh,

[00:43:05] another sort of observation,

[00:43:07] you know,

[00:43:07] is it like that confidence thing?

[00:43:09] And,

[00:43:10] and,

[00:43:10] you know,

[00:43:10] we sort of saying that it's,

[00:43:13] you know,

[00:43:13] it,

[00:43:14] the purpose of it isn't to be able to go into a bar and,

[00:43:18] you know,

[00:43:18] beat the crap out of everyone.

[00:43:20] But,

[00:43:21] you know,

[00:43:21] when we,

[00:43:22] when we come down to sort of,

[00:43:23] you know,

[00:43:23] us men in a thing,

[00:43:25] I think,

[00:43:26] you know,

[00:43:26] we all want to kind of feel that if there was a threatening situation,

[00:43:32] we could deal with it.

[00:43:34] So,

[00:43:34] you know,

[00:43:34] I think,

[00:43:35] as I said,

[00:43:36] there's,

[00:43:36] you know,

[00:43:37] perhaps confidence that comes from learning a new skill later in life.

[00:43:40] But yeah,

[00:43:41] I think,

[00:43:42] you know,

[00:43:42] sort of boiling down to,

[00:43:43] to man,

[00:43:45] you know,

[00:43:46] the ability to protect your family,

[00:43:48] that must have quite,

[00:43:50] you know,

[00:43:50] even at a subconscious level that,

[00:43:52] that must have.

[00:43:53] Massive.

[00:43:54] Yeah.

[00:43:54] And I think that is what I was,

[00:43:56] you know,

[00:43:56] referred to earlier on in the conversation piece,

[00:43:59] that going backwards,

[00:44:02] when I learned martial arts,

[00:44:04] I then had that confidence not to engage in,

[00:44:06] in,

[00:44:07] in physical conversation.

[00:44:07] I could almost see things coming.

[00:44:09] It's almost like that.

[00:44:10] Sixth century or something.

[00:44:11] You could almost see things coming.

[00:44:13] And that in itself gives you quite a lot of confidence,

[00:44:16] you know,

[00:44:16] for a,

[00:44:17] let's say for a massive perspective.

[00:44:18] And I think actually it was the lack of control,

[00:44:23] but also potentially the lack of confidence that before actually got me involved in these kind of,

[00:44:27] um,

[00:44:28] you know,

[00:44:28] a bit of short man syndrome.

[00:44:29] I'm five foot nine.

[00:44:30] And,

[00:44:31] you know,

[00:44:31] you take the Mickey,

[00:44:32] you know,

[00:44:32] my gosh,

[00:44:32] and what is he doing today?

[00:44:34] I'm not having that.

[00:44:34] Sorry,

[00:44:35] no,

[00:44:35] the red cross taller than me.

[00:44:37] Oh,

[00:44:41] yeah.

[00:44:42] I,

[00:44:42] I,

[00:44:43] I,

[00:44:43] I reserve my judgment.

[00:44:47] So,

[00:44:48] yeah,

[00:44:48] so I think confidence is,

[00:44:50] is,

[00:44:50] is,

[00:44:50] is that kind of,

[00:44:51] it's,

[00:44:51] it's a lot more subtle than having to fight and,

[00:44:54] and,

[00:44:55] and throw people over bar stools or whatever.

[00:44:57] It's that awareness,

[00:44:59] acknowledgement,

[00:45:00] seeing things before they happen,

[00:45:01] being able to diffuse them all apart.

[00:45:04] That development along the,

[00:45:06] along the way,

[00:45:07] really.

[00:45:08] And going back to the,

[00:45:10] the aspects of martial arts and psychology,

[00:45:13] I suppose the key additional aspect that I've really developed as the program has grown is around brain health and neurology.

[00:45:22] That's kind of really has been my thing.

[00:45:24] I'm not a neurological expert or anything like that by any means,

[00:45:27] but I found it absolutely fascinating.

[00:45:31] And I think it was probably the first person that wasn't,

[00:45:34] wasn't necessarily that successful in the course,

[00:45:37] that couldn't quite seem to,

[00:45:39] what is a couple?

[00:45:40] One that actually started off absolutely brilliant and that absolutely everything,

[00:45:45] and then completely burned out within weeks.

[00:45:49] And another client just couldn't quite,

[00:45:52] every time it,

[00:45:53] it,

[00:45:54] it started off quite well.

[00:45:55] It dropped back with a bit of a new crisis and then he had to build him back up again.

[00:45:59] And then within weeks he dropped back again.

[00:46:01] And I felt incredibly frustrating actually.

[00:46:03] And I thought,

[00:46:04] I need to know what's going on here.

[00:46:06] And upon sort of closer inspection and reflection and a bit of research,

[00:46:12] the number one thing that stood out for me was,

[00:46:17] yeah,

[00:46:18] it was just,

[00:46:19] was just,

[00:46:19] there's probably around something around neurological health

[00:46:21] and recognizing that,

[00:46:24] you know,

[00:46:24] you're not stuck with the brain you have,

[00:46:25] you could actually make it better.

[00:46:26] I didn't realize that.

[00:46:28] Um,

[00:46:29] bit of a war going on for the old brain health at the moment.

[00:46:32] And if you could put maybe the corporations and their advertisements on one side

[00:46:36] and that self care,

[00:46:38] awareness and knowledge and support on the other.

[00:46:42] Um,

[00:46:43] and it was particularly around nutrition where I really started to develop this more neurological

[00:46:48] aspect.

[00:46:49] And even just looking at neurology and craving and willpower,

[00:46:53] um,

[00:46:54] there's some complex areas involved,

[00:46:56] which you even got some awareness of,

[00:46:58] you're probably going to struggle a little bit.

[00:47:00] So I know we're probably a bit short on timing,

[00:47:03] but in,

[00:47:03] I'll wrap it up here,

[00:47:05] but in basic terms around your neurological willpower,

[00:47:09] you're talking around the prefrontal cortex,

[00:47:12] the basal glandular,

[00:47:13] your kind of center emotional,

[00:47:14] motivational center,

[00:47:15] and that deep limbic,

[00:47:17] limbic area,

[00:47:18] the emotional memory center.

[00:47:20] They're all involved around nutrition and cravings.

[00:47:25] Um,

[00:47:25] there's some electrical stuff in there as well.

[00:47:27] So I'm not going to go into that problem.

[00:47:28] I've got enough time around dopamine,

[00:47:29] gamma and endorphins as well.

[00:47:31] So it's that complex electrical and chemical process,

[00:47:34] if you like.

[00:47:36] And without some knowledge of that in this nutritional context,

[00:47:40] you're probably going to struggle quite a bit.

[00:47:43] You may have some success for a short period of time,

[00:47:46] but you will definitely go back to your old habits.

[00:47:50] This additional neurological understanding can lay stronger fundamental basis for long-term changes.

[00:47:58] So yeah,

[00:47:59] neurologic and brain health is probably one of my most key concepts alongside the martial arts,

[00:48:05] which we spoke about.

[00:48:07] That makes sense.

[00:48:08] To be honest,

[00:48:09] that's a topic in itself.

[00:48:11] you know,

[00:48:11] I,

[00:48:11] I love a bit of real science.

[00:48:14] Um,

[00:48:14] you know,

[00:48:15] just,

[00:48:15] just knowing that muscle,

[00:48:17] you know,

[00:48:17] burns fat.

[00:48:18] Um,

[00:48:21] no,

[00:48:21] it's always going to start.

[00:48:22] Well,

[00:48:22] we all know that,

[00:48:23] don't we?

[00:48:23] Yeah.

[00:48:24] But most of us do.

[00:48:25] Yeah.

[00:48:28] Dave,

[00:48:28] um,

[00:48:29] I,

[00:48:29] you know,

[00:48:30] I,

[00:48:31] I think time just flew past.

[00:48:32] So that was,

[00:48:33] was really interesting.

[00:48:33] Thank you for sharing that and,

[00:48:36] and,

[00:48:36] and coming on the podcast.

[00:48:37] If people want to find out more about it,

[00:48:39] you know,

[00:48:40] your program,

[00:48:40] what do you do?

[00:48:42] How,

[00:48:42] how do they do that?

[00:48:43] How do they get in touch?

[00:48:44] Where,

[00:48:44] where can they find you?

[00:48:46] Yeah,

[00:48:47] that's,

[00:48:47] that's really easy.

[00:48:48] Actually.

[00:48:48] Well,

[00:48:49] everything is going to be at this one address.

[00:48:51] So Dave Ferguson coach.com and you'll get everything there.

[00:48:56] So I'm happy to offer,

[00:48:59] um,

[00:48:59] some,

[00:48:59] Oh,

[00:49:00] how much can we do?

[00:49:01] Four or five consultancy calls included in that will be a brain screening assessment for the first five people that contact me through that route.

[00:49:10] Um,

[00:49:11] exactly the same address.

[00:49:12] Yes.

[00:49:13] You can get a range of free resources that I spoke about.

[00:49:16] Just go down there,

[00:49:16] download them.

[00:49:17] Yeah.

[00:49:17] Huge amount.

[00:49:18] They're available.

[00:49:20] Um,

[00:49:21] that's,

[00:49:21] as I said,

[00:49:21] where you'll book the call as well,

[00:49:22] if you want,

[00:49:23] um,

[00:49:24] all my social media links are there as well.

[00:49:26] So you can follow just for that same day,

[00:49:28] folks and coach.com.

[00:49:29] and you can follow all the social media links as well.

[00:49:31] Facebook,

[00:49:32] Instagram,

[00:49:33] and,

[00:49:33] um,

[00:49:34] LinkedIn.

[00:49:34] Um,

[00:49:35] you can also get to my Facebook group there as well.

[00:49:37] I am a,

[00:49:38] um,

[00:49:39] wellbeing and support group.

[00:49:40] So whether you want to book a call,

[00:49:42] whether you just want some free resources,

[00:49:44] follow me on social media,

[00:49:46] all through Dave Ferguson,

[00:49:47] coach.com.

[00:49:49] Brilliant.

[00:49:49] And they,

[00:49:50] they,

[00:49:51] they best quote men up,

[00:49:52] men down.

[00:49:52] So as a wise,

[00:49:53] everyone gets something free.

[00:49:55] Yes.

[00:49:55] Yes.

[00:49:56] Sorry.

[00:49:56] Yeah.

[00:49:56] I mean,

[00:49:57] I'm sticking to five because it's,

[00:49:59] yeah,

[00:49:59] it takes a little while,

[00:50:00] these calls and stuff.

[00:50:01] So that's as much as I can go.

[00:50:03] Yeah.

[00:50:03] I mentioned MUMD.

[00:50:05] Yeah.

[00:50:05] That's incredible.

[00:50:06] Thank you very much.

[00:50:07] But yeah,

[00:50:08] no,

[00:50:08] appreciate that.

[00:50:09] So thank you so much.

[00:50:11] And,

[00:50:11] uh,

[00:50:12] yeah,

[00:50:13] I say enjoy,

[00:50:14] enjoy the weather time of recording.

[00:50:16] It's a rather nice in the UK.

[00:50:18] Yes.

[00:50:18] Yeah,

[00:50:18] absolutely.

[00:50:18] A little bit sweaty on,

[00:50:19] the old nose,

[00:50:20] but I managed not to,

[00:50:21] um,

[00:50:22] stream too much.

[00:50:23] Um,

[00:50:23] but no,

[00:50:24] appreciate it guys.

[00:50:25] Thanks for the opportunity as well,

[00:50:26] because it's great to have this and I can't see him,

[00:50:28] but it's great to have this kind of audience that are in this kind of space

[00:50:31] and to share that message.

[00:50:33] Um,

[00:50:34] I really,

[00:50:35] really do appreciate.

[00:50:36] So thanks so much.

[00:50:37] And thanks for a lot.

[00:50:37] Thank you.

[00:50:38] I like a bit of a laugh as well.

[00:50:40] Yeah.

[00:50:41] Keep up the great.

[00:50:42] Thank you.

[00:50:46] Thanks for listening to this week's episode.

[00:50:49] Feel free to reach out to Fulker or David via our website,

[00:50:52] www.manupdown.com or podcast at manupdown.com with any feedback or to let us know what topics

[00:50:59] you'd like us to cover in the future.

[00:51:01] Hear you again soon.