Man Up / Man Down LIVE

[00:00:05] Welcome to the Man Up, Man Down podcast, presented by Volker Ballueder and David Pawsey.

[00:00:12] We discuss the pressures and challenges faced by men approaching middle age that we're often too embarrassed to speak about with our friends.

[00:00:20] You can find us online at www.manupdown.com.

[00:00:26] Enjoy the show and don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review.

[00:00:34] Right, well, welcome to Man Up, Man Down LIVE.

[00:00:44] We're definitely doing that again.

[00:00:47] Welcome to Man Up, Man Down LIVE.

[00:00:54] Well, yeah, thanks very much for joining us.

[00:00:57] Obviously, as you can see from the slides, it's going to be a fun-filled evening.

[00:01:02] Date night, I've got my wife here, so, you know, that's how we like to party.

[00:01:07] But before we get started, just a big thank you to our sponsors.

[00:01:11] First of all, to Apex Hotel that are letting us use this room for free.

[00:01:15] We wouldn't have been able to do the event without them.

[00:01:19] Thanks also to Newman for coming along, but also for, yeah, funding pretty much today.

[00:01:25] And we'll also fund several episodes going forward.

[00:01:30] So, you know, that's why we do it.

[00:01:33] Thanks also to PPAC, DTSource, Infigo and Welldoing.org and Metal.

[00:01:40] All great companies.

[00:01:42] I recommend that you check out their websites, etc.

[00:01:46] But, yeah, so, here we are.

[00:01:49] Talk about overcoming adversity.

[00:01:51] Yeah, I think that's why we're here, aren't we?

[00:01:53] Anyway, so I assume everyone has listened to a podcast, so you kind of know that, you know,

[00:01:58] the way we, you know, complement each other, support each other, right?

[00:02:04] Put each other down and then pull each other up again.

[00:02:07] So, yeah, so tonight is all about overcoming adversity.

[00:02:09] So, if you haven't listened to the podcast, I overcame adversity myself.

[00:02:15] Seven redundancies, I think, I did in my career until I went self-employed six years ago,

[00:02:21] which was probably the best decision I've ever made, besides obviously launching a podcast with you, Dave.

[00:02:27] Yeah.

[00:02:28] But we have someone else tonight here who is, you know, much better than me talking about adversity

[00:02:34] and probably overcame a lot more adversity.

[00:02:37] So, Mark Convey, a burn victim at 13, 14.

[00:02:41] Come on up.

[00:02:50] So, our guest is all from Brighton tonight, all the way from Brighton.

[00:02:52] All the way.

[00:02:53] Yeah.

[00:02:53] So, I let you fill in the story and with him tonight is Rose Rokens,

[00:02:59] suicide prevention specialist, if that's the right.

[00:03:02] I'll give you a good description for you.

[00:03:09] So, welcome to both of you, both from Brighton.

[00:03:12] So, it's great.

[00:03:13] We're all on the Brighton, or actually part of us are on the Brighton train home later on.

[00:03:18] The party train to Brighton, right?

[00:03:20] So, welcome to the live podcast recording and thanks for making it.

[00:03:24] Thanks for having us.

[00:03:24] It's a real privilege and an honour, especially to be here with Rose as well.

[00:03:29] Like, we know each other, go back a little bit since last year.

[00:03:31] So, yeah, hopefully we can have a really nice, balanced conversation and offer a bit of advice

[00:03:37] and inspiration.

[00:03:40] So, where do we want to start?

[00:03:41] We'll start with you, Mark, telling us about your story, because that's quite a heavy story,

[00:03:46] quite an intense story, but I'll let you take it away.

[00:03:48] Yeah, I should probably come with a little bit of a trigger warning.

[00:03:52] But it also starts with a cliche, kids playing with matches when they shouldn't have done,

[00:03:57] which I was doing at 14 years old in Ireland on holiday, playing with my first cousin.

[00:04:03] And we did what we call like a genie in a box when we were finished playing with cats.

[00:04:08] Unfortunately, it was a bit too close to a can of petrol in a garage, in a car garage.

[00:04:13] And the can of petrol fell over, created a wall of fire that trapped me in.

[00:04:18] Luckily, my cousin was on the side of the door, the only door, managed to get out.

[00:04:25] It's actually only really the last couple of years since I started to look back at it

[00:04:28] and talk with people who were there that I had to come to the realisation

[00:04:32] I probably did have a bit more time to get out than I realised.

[00:04:35] In my mind over the years, I think I protected myself by assuming that it was like instant

[00:04:40] and then I was trapped. So I froze, I guess, in that moment.

[00:04:44] Or we're still trying to figure out how we're going to get out of this in terms of trouble.

[00:04:49] I think I was more worried about probably the decade's detention or being grounded that I would have got.

[00:04:59] But anyway, before I had those conscious thoughts, the heat, the fumes, I passed out.

[00:05:05] I had a crazy near-death experience where it felt like I was talking with souls or beings that maybe are ancestors.

[00:05:15] Inexplainable, really.

[00:05:17] And it's not something that I need to explain or figure out.

[00:05:21] The only thing that I take from it is that I then heard my uncle's voice.

[00:05:26] I was standing in my uncle's house and I heard, I mean, heard in quotation marks, his voice telling me that,

[00:05:33] no, you need to come back. You've got great things that you're going to do with your life

[00:05:38] and you need to come back. And I was like, you're absolutely right.

[00:05:42] And as soon as I made that decision, bang, I was awake.

[00:05:45] It's burning fire around me.

[00:05:47] Luckily, I was never on fire.

[00:05:48] But then immediately I was on my feet.

[00:05:51] And one of the last memories I had before passing out was of my panicking cousin running around,

[00:05:56] thinking how the hell to get me out.

[00:05:58] And one of the things he did was smash a small little window,

[00:06:03] probably about chest tight up to about here, of a 14-year-old boy, and he smashed it.

[00:06:07] And as soon as I was awake and on my feet, I was looking at that window.

[00:06:12] And then it felt like these two great hands just got either side of my buttocks

[00:06:17] and just lifted me up and just threw me out the window.

[00:06:20] So I just went flying out the window.

[00:06:22] Because outside my family, who had all been, you know,

[00:06:26] one of my other cousins was upstairs and upstairs in the bathroom,

[00:06:29] and he raised the alarm and then family came out.

[00:06:32] My mum was there, my 11-year-old sister was there,

[00:06:35] and some other cousins.

[00:06:36] And it was a petrol fire, right?

[00:06:38] So just throwing water on it was only probably going to bring the flames closer to me.

[00:06:44] There were no emergency services that I could get hold of,

[00:06:47] so they were on their own trying to figure this thing out.

[00:06:51] One of my other cousins said to me last year that,

[00:06:53] and again, I didn't realise how long I was in there,

[00:06:55] and I don't have a time, but he was saying,

[00:06:58] yeah, it got to a point where I didn't think we were even going to find a body,

[00:07:01] let alone you being alive.

[00:07:03] So actually, it's kind of another multiple miracles that, you know,

[00:07:09] pretty much what you see is the main damage on me.

[00:07:11] 38% originally were burned, but luckily you grow and burn sites shrink,

[00:07:16] so there's just a few patches around me.

[00:07:18] So I don't know how.

[00:07:19] But anyway, so I'm out, and then I'm just rolling on the floor next to it.

[00:07:24] I think I'm black as soot, not surprisingly,

[00:07:27] and I hear, he's out, he's out.

[00:07:29] Because one of my cousins, the one who raised the alarm at that point,

[00:07:33] had gone into the downstairs shower, turned the shower on,

[00:07:36] wet loads of towels, and he was about to come in to find me,

[00:07:39] until my uncle stopped him, which I'm really, really grateful for,

[00:07:42] because it's just enough having a member of your family go through this.

[00:07:47] And then, yeah, packed into a car,

[00:07:49] said no emergency services that they get hold of.

[00:07:52] So there's a really big electrical storm in the west of Ireland,

[00:07:55] across all of Ireland, I think, that day,

[00:07:57] one of the biggest they'd had in decades.

[00:07:58] So it may well be that they were out dealing with other emergencies.

[00:08:03] One other child did die that night, got struck by lightning.

[00:08:07] Anyway, bundled into the back of the car with my mum.

[00:08:10] The 10-mile journey to the local hospital was pretty horrific,

[00:08:15] as you can imagine.

[00:08:17] And I've just started writing my subsack, my story, actually,

[00:08:20] and I wrote about this journey.

[00:08:22] And my mum filled me in some details.

[00:08:24] And she said to me, you know,

[00:08:27] do you remember just asking us to let you die,

[00:08:30] because the pain was too much?

[00:08:32] And I didn't remember that.

[00:08:33] The pain was horrific.

[00:08:35] Anyway, managed to get to the local hospital.

[00:08:38] They took two or three hours to stabilise me,

[00:08:41] but then they didn't have the facilities there

[00:08:42] to really look after me.

[00:08:44] So I had to be put in the back of an ambulance,

[00:08:47] four-hour journey across night to Dublin.

[00:08:49] I flatlined twice on the way.

[00:08:52] So they were telling my mum, who was in the front of the ambulance,

[00:08:56] that they were changing drips or something like that.

[00:08:59] Yeah, I got to Dublin alive, thankfully.

[00:09:03] Put into an induced coma.

[00:09:07] I don't know how long that was for.

[00:09:08] They then slowly took me out of that.

[00:09:10] But then someone didn't read my files properly

[00:09:12] to see that I was allergic to penicillin.

[00:09:15] So someone gave me penicillin.

[00:09:16] That nearly killed me.

[00:09:17] So I had to go back into an induced coma.

[00:09:19] Came out of that.

[00:09:20] I was in Dublin for about nine to 11 weeks.

[00:09:26] I had three operations while I was there.

[00:09:29] They butchered my hands, unfortunately,

[00:09:31] and did stuff that they shouldn't have done.

[00:09:33] The grafts were successful.

[00:09:36] A lot of pain medication.

[00:09:38] And then, yeah, they got me addicted to morphine, unfortunately.

[00:09:42] So I had to go through cold turkey from morphine as well at some point.

[00:09:47] I think that was after I'd come out of all the danger zone.

[00:09:50] And then they were...

[00:09:51] Because I know that when I was reading your sub stack,

[00:09:54] that that was something that I picked up on

[00:09:57] that you hadn't mentioned when we interviewed you before.

[00:09:59] Yeah.

[00:10:00] So, I mean, have you found that from writing about it

[00:10:04] and talking with your family more,

[00:10:06] is a lot of stuff coming back?

[00:10:08] Yeah, loads of stuff.

[00:10:09] So when I decided that...

[00:10:12] Because, you know, for decades,

[00:10:13] my mum was going to be like,

[00:10:14] when are you going to write a book?

[00:10:15] When are you going to share your story with the world?

[00:10:16] When are you going to let others see what we see from you

[00:10:19] and how you talk?

[00:10:20] And I never thought I would.

[00:10:22] It wasn't that I was or I wasn't.

[00:10:24] I was just like, no, I'm not ready.

[00:10:26] I'm just too busy living life.

[00:10:29] And then I think getting to middle age,

[00:10:31] the pandemic,

[00:10:33] suddenly I was ready.

[00:10:34] And so, you know,

[00:10:37] I left a company that I founded.

[00:10:40] I joined another startup that left that.

[00:10:42] I realized I had to go solo.

[00:10:44] And then, so what I wanted to do,

[00:10:47] first of all,

[00:10:47] it was, you know,

[00:10:48] about making sure I was okay

[00:10:50] and sharing my story

[00:10:51] and actually adding value to my life

[00:10:52] because I feel like

[00:10:54] I'm justifying my trauma even more

[00:10:56] by helping people.

[00:10:57] But when you suffer trauma,

[00:10:59] especially the level that I did,

[00:11:01] you very rarely suffer in isolation.

[00:11:04] So what happened to me was

[00:11:05] the biggest thing

[00:11:06] in all my family's lives as well, right?

[00:11:08] And imagine being there on the night

[00:11:10] and seeing it

[00:11:11] and feeling helpless.

[00:11:13] It's when you're in the middle of it,

[00:11:14] you're kind of just dealing with it.

[00:11:16] But often it's like

[00:11:17] football managers are more nervous

[00:11:19] watching the game from the sidelines

[00:11:21] than they are in the middle.

[00:11:22] So often mentally,

[00:11:23] it's harder to deal with

[00:11:25] seeing a loved one suffering

[00:11:26] the way I did.

[00:11:28] So to make,

[00:11:29] before I wanted to come on

[00:11:31] like your podcast

[00:11:32] and do things like this

[00:11:33] and speak in front of audiences,

[00:11:34] it was super important for me

[00:11:36] to make sure that my family were okay.

[00:11:38] So I did a three week

[00:11:40] camper van trip around Ireland

[00:11:41] and I had one-to-ones

[00:11:43] with all of them

[00:11:43] that I could

[00:11:44] just to make sure

[00:11:45] that they were okay,

[00:11:47] if there's anything

[00:11:48] they needed to share.

[00:11:49] And then from that,

[00:11:51] loads of new details emerged

[00:11:52] and then that triggered

[00:11:53] my own memories

[00:11:54] and then sitting down,

[00:11:56] which I did last summer

[00:11:57] and just wrote 40,000 words

[00:11:59] while it was all fresh.

[00:12:00] Just every day

[00:12:01] I wrote for two hours

[00:12:01] and loads of stuff came up.

[00:12:03] So yeah,

[00:12:04] yeah, absolutely.

[00:12:06] But yeah,

[00:12:07] so Dublin was a bit of a

[00:12:09] rollercoaster,

[00:12:10] torturous dressing changes

[00:12:12] every day

[00:12:14] and then getting back to England

[00:12:16] at the end of September.

[00:12:17] So this was 1992

[00:12:19] and then,

[00:12:20] and that's when the real

[00:12:21] kind of hard work started,

[00:12:23] should we say,

[00:12:24] I think by the end of the year.

[00:12:26] So by Christmas,

[00:12:26] I'd had another 17 operations,

[00:12:29] I think.

[00:12:29] So my first full week

[00:12:30] in hospital was

[00:12:32] Operation Monday,

[00:12:33] Operation Wednesday,

[00:12:33] Operation Friday.

[00:12:35] some of those were

[00:12:36] huge dressing changes,

[00:12:38] which they did

[00:12:38] under general anaesthetic,

[00:12:40] which is what they didn't do

[00:12:41] back in Dublin.

[00:12:43] So I was having them

[00:12:43] with just Entenox

[00:12:44] and too much morphine,

[00:12:46] obviously.

[00:12:48] Surely you can never

[00:12:49] have enough morphine.

[00:12:51] You can until they

[00:12:52] take it away

[00:12:53] and then four days cold turkey

[00:12:55] would tell you otherwise.

[00:12:57] But it was relentless

[00:12:58] in England,

[00:13:01] but it was very clear

[00:13:04] that we were just

[00:13:04] surrounded by

[00:13:05] the best in their field,

[00:13:07] world class.

[00:13:10] And I was up for the fight

[00:13:12] and I was up for making sure

[00:13:14] that they were up

[00:13:14] for giving me

[00:13:15] the treatment

[00:13:18] that I needed.

[00:13:19] So I just kind of

[00:13:20] threw myself into it

[00:13:21] and it was just

[00:13:22] unbelievably fortunate

[00:13:23] to have

[00:13:25] an incredible family,

[00:13:26] supportive family,

[00:13:27] a stable family,

[00:13:29] had a stable upbringing,

[00:13:30] amazing school,

[00:13:31] amazing community.

[00:13:32] My parents

[00:13:33] are both

[00:13:35] Irish Catholic

[00:13:36] so being brought up

[00:13:37] in the church,

[00:13:38] even though I don't

[00:13:38] practice these days,

[00:13:40] it's just

[00:13:40] whatever you say

[00:13:41] about organized religion,

[00:13:42] the one thing

[00:13:43] that's amazing about it

[00:13:44] is the strength

[00:13:44] of the community

[00:13:45] and when something

[00:13:46] goes wrong

[00:13:46] how they just

[00:13:47] wrap themselves

[00:13:47] around you.

[00:13:49] And I had parents

[00:13:50] that for decades

[00:13:51] just paid things forward.

[00:13:52] They were just so giving

[00:13:54] and then suddenly

[00:13:55] it all just came back

[00:13:56] when they needed it most.

[00:13:58] Yeah,

[00:13:59] so that's kind of

[00:13:59] the real crux

[00:14:02] of what happened to me.

[00:14:05] I mean,

[00:14:05] that's obviously

[00:14:06] the depressing bit.

[00:14:08] Yeah.

[00:14:09] But I mean,

[00:14:09] when I was talking,

[00:14:11] well,

[00:14:12] I was describing

[00:14:14] tonight's event,

[00:14:15] selling it to my friends,

[00:14:17] you know,

[00:14:18] and the thing I said

[00:14:19] was,

[00:14:20] you know,

[00:14:20] you were basically

[00:14:21] told we've got to

[00:14:21] miss the year of school,

[00:14:23] you know,

[00:14:24] you're not going to

[00:14:25] live a normal life

[00:14:26] and to paraphrase,

[00:14:28] you're like,

[00:14:28] well,

[00:14:28] fuck that,

[00:14:29] I am going to

[00:14:30] do those things.

[00:14:32] So,

[00:14:32] I mean,

[00:14:32] can you sort of

[00:14:33] talk us through

[00:14:35] your mindset

[00:14:35] and your attitude?

[00:14:37] Well,

[00:14:37] I think I was very lucky

[00:14:38] that,

[00:14:38] you know,

[00:14:39] what I inherited

[00:14:40] character traits

[00:14:41] from my parents

[00:14:41] in terms of

[00:14:43] stubbornness

[00:14:43] and pig-headedness

[00:14:44] and being quite competitive

[00:14:46] and these are things

[00:14:47] that could often

[00:14:48] get me in trouble

[00:14:49] and get me in trouble

[00:14:50] at school

[00:14:50] and falling out

[00:14:51] with friends

[00:14:51] and,

[00:14:53] but,

[00:14:54] and I don't know

[00:14:54] if it,

[00:14:55] you know,

[00:14:55] it's easy to sort of

[00:14:56] look back

[00:14:57] and think we consciously

[00:14:58] made these sort of

[00:14:58] decisions,

[00:14:59] but,

[00:15:01] but,

[00:15:02] you know,

[00:15:02] I,

[00:15:03] because of everything

[00:15:04] that went wrong

[00:15:05] in Dublin

[00:15:06] and how out of control

[00:15:07] I felt,

[00:15:08] when I got to the UK

[00:15:11] and back to London,

[00:15:12] I wanted more control

[00:15:13] leaving the 14

[00:15:14] and just to be informed

[00:15:16] of what was going on.

[00:15:17] There was so many times

[00:15:17] where there was,

[00:15:19] you know,

[00:15:19] people in the room,

[00:15:20] two or three

[00:15:21] and multiple adults

[00:15:22] talking about me.

[00:15:23] Like,

[00:15:23] they were making

[00:15:23] the decision for me

[00:15:24] that then they would

[00:15:25] go and tell a child

[00:15:26] and I was just like,

[00:15:27] when I got back to London

[00:15:28] I was like,

[00:15:28] this isn't,

[00:15:29] Mum,

[00:15:29] this is not the way

[00:15:30] it's going to work

[00:15:31] and then it helped her

[00:15:32] as well

[00:15:33] because it takes

[00:15:33] some pressure off her

[00:15:34] and my dad's shoulders

[00:15:36] that I was like,

[00:15:36] I want to know

[00:15:37] everything that goes on,

[00:15:38] I can take it,

[00:15:39] you give me all the details

[00:15:40] and let's make

[00:15:40] these decisions together.

[00:15:42] And I met up

[00:15:43] with my physio

[00:15:44] for the first time

[00:15:45] a while ago

[00:15:45] for the first time

[00:15:46] in 25 years

[00:15:48] and she said

[00:15:48] she remembers it clearly.

[00:15:50] She was like,

[00:15:50] day four,

[00:15:51] she was like,

[00:15:52] I was like,

[00:15:52] I've got to up my game

[00:15:53] because this kid

[00:15:54] is ready for it.

[00:15:56] So,

[00:15:56] so they were,

[00:15:57] so if I did

[00:15:58] those kind of things,

[00:15:59] I was talking to Rose

[00:16:00] about this on the way up

[00:16:01] in terms of the,

[00:16:02] there were the controllables

[00:16:03] and the uncontrollables,

[00:16:04] uncontrollables,

[00:16:05] uncontrollables?

[00:16:06] Anyway.

[00:16:08] And the things

[00:16:08] that I could control,

[00:16:09] I wanted to be,

[00:16:12] fully energized

[00:16:12] and making decisions

[00:16:13] in them.

[00:16:13] So,

[00:16:15] education was one

[00:16:16] of those things

[00:16:16] and,

[00:16:18] you know,

[00:16:18] my attitudes

[00:16:19] and all those things

[00:16:20] and there were so many

[00:16:20] things that were outside

[00:16:21] of my control.

[00:16:22] I was like,

[00:16:22] you're going to have

[00:16:22] to have all these operations,

[00:16:23] you're going to have

[00:16:24] to do this,

[00:16:24] you're going to have

[00:16:40] seems really,

[00:16:41] really old

[00:16:42] and I just knew

[00:16:43] mentally it would destroy

[00:16:44] me if I had to drop

[00:16:46] back a year

[00:16:47] and it really pissed me off

[00:16:48] that they were all

[00:16:49] just assuming that

[00:16:49] that was going to be the case.

[00:16:52] So,

[00:16:53] I was just like,

[00:16:53] to my mum

[00:16:54] and to a community nurse,

[00:16:55] I was like,

[00:16:56] I'm telling you now,

[00:16:56] I'm staying in my school year,

[00:16:58] you do whatever you need

[00:16:59] to do to make that happen

[00:17:00] and I'll do what I can do

[00:17:02] from my side.

[00:17:02] So,

[00:17:03] as soon as they were on board,

[00:17:04] they just went to war for me.

[00:17:06] You were with my school

[00:17:07] who was just,

[00:17:08] no, no, no, no,

[00:17:09] we don't have resources,

[00:17:10] you have to go back,

[00:17:10] we need more time

[00:17:11] to plan for this.

[00:17:12] The local authority

[00:17:13] to be able to get,

[00:17:15] you know,

[00:17:15] like a taxi lift

[00:17:16] so that my mum

[00:17:17] didn't have to do,

[00:17:18] she could get a bit

[00:17:19] of quality life back

[00:17:20] because she gave up

[00:17:20] everything for me

[00:17:22] to be my primary carer

[00:17:24] and the problem

[00:17:25] is my right hand

[00:17:26] was really badly damaged

[00:17:27] and I had to learn

[00:17:28] to write with my left hand

[00:17:29] when I wasn't having

[00:17:30] operations on it

[00:17:31] but luckily back then

[00:17:32] the NHS had

[00:17:33] where they were just

[00:17:34] starting to shut them down

[00:17:35] so there was schools

[00:17:36] within the hospitals

[00:17:37] so I could go

[00:17:38] for two hours every day

[00:17:39] and just learn

[00:17:40] and practice

[00:17:40] to write,

[00:17:41] use a keyboard

[00:17:41] so that was huge.

[00:17:43] Without that

[00:17:43] I wouldn't have gone back

[00:17:44] to school for sure

[00:17:48] but yeah,

[00:17:48] somehow,

[00:17:49] six months later

[00:17:50] I'm back in school

[00:17:52] and, you know,

[00:17:53] I read reports

[00:17:53] of people who have gone through

[00:17:55] to go through

[00:17:57] you know,

[00:17:57] what I've gone through

[00:17:58] in the modern day

[00:17:59] and often

[00:18:01] they're inpatients

[00:18:02] for 18 months

[00:18:03] and two years

[00:18:03] and I'm 14 years old

[00:18:05] and six months

[00:18:06] I'm back in school

[00:18:06] and it was just

[00:18:07] I'm not trying to like

[00:18:09] you know,

[00:18:09] big myself up here

[00:18:10] it's just

[00:18:10] I think you can

[00:18:11] I can Mark.

[00:18:12] Okay, alright.

[00:18:13] I'll just fish up

[00:18:13] up here.

[00:18:14] Thank you.

[00:18:15] But I think that

[00:18:17] the NHS was resourced enough

[00:18:19] that there were

[00:18:20] community nurses

[00:18:21] so they could support me

[00:18:23] not always as an inpatient

[00:18:24] whereas you don't have

[00:18:25] that so much now.

[00:18:27] So to be able

[00:18:27] to have a nurse

[00:18:28] to come out

[00:18:28] to effectively

[00:18:29] set my bedroom up

[00:18:30] as a second

[00:18:34] hospital ward

[00:18:35] effectively

[00:18:35] so that I could

[00:18:36] go home for weekends

[00:18:37] so that I could

[00:18:38] reintegrate to society

[00:18:39] as quickly as possible

[00:18:40] so that before

[00:18:42] I was too institutionalised

[00:18:44] within a hospital

[00:18:45] and suddenly

[00:18:45] the longer you're away

[00:18:46] from seeing the people

[00:18:48] that knew a different you

[00:18:49] the harder it gets

[00:18:50] whereas very quickly

[00:18:52] I was encouraged

[00:18:53] to reintegrate back in

[00:18:54] and I was all for it

[00:18:55] and I always very much

[00:18:56] had a head up attitude

[00:18:57] and then having extra resources

[00:19:01] like the school

[00:19:01] in the hospital

[00:19:03] was massive.

[00:19:05] So yeah

[00:19:06] so I rocked up

[00:19:07] in January of 1993

[00:19:08] back to my school

[00:19:10] and that was probably

[00:19:12] single-handedly

[00:19:12] the hardest day of my life

[00:19:13] you know

[00:19:14] we can talk about

[00:19:15] the accident

[00:19:16] but that's in the moment

[00:19:16] right

[00:19:17] the school has that lead up

[00:19:18] you're going back

[00:19:19] to an all boys

[00:19:20] very masculine

[00:19:22] Catholic school

[00:19:24] and it was

[00:19:26] terrifying

[00:19:26] absolutely terrifying

[00:19:27] but you go in

[00:19:29] and you face them

[00:19:30] and you realise

[00:19:31] actually people just

[00:19:31] care about you

[00:19:32] more than anything

[00:19:33] and you get over

[00:19:34] that hurdle

[00:19:34] so these things

[00:19:36] came thick and fast

[00:19:37] you know

[00:19:37] for the first six months

[00:19:38] new things

[00:19:39] relearning

[00:19:39] you know

[00:19:40] being fitted

[00:19:41] with a clear

[00:19:42] perspex mask

[00:19:43] which I had to wear

[00:19:44] 24 hours a day

[00:19:45] for two years

[00:19:46] so if I didn't look

[00:19:47] scary enough

[00:19:47] you put that on me

[00:19:48] and then I've got

[00:19:48] to turn up at school

[00:19:50] but I had

[00:19:51] unbelievable friends

[00:19:52] who just

[00:19:53] rallied around me

[00:19:54] and

[00:19:56] it became clear

[00:19:58] that I was

[00:19:59] untouchable

[00:19:59] in terms of

[00:20:00] if anyone came near me

[00:20:01] they would have been

[00:20:02] booted out of the school

[00:20:05] and I just

[00:20:05] suddenly started to

[00:20:06] enjoy being able

[00:20:07] to face up to

[00:20:07] bullies

[00:20:08] and take the piss

[00:20:08] out of them

[00:20:09] you can't come near me

[00:20:10] mate

[00:20:11] and I remember

[00:20:12] doing that

[00:20:12] to one guy

[00:20:13] in particular

[00:20:13] and it was like

[00:20:14] this is alright

[00:20:15] this

[00:20:15] so it wasn't

[00:20:16] that I went

[00:20:17] let the power

[00:20:18] go to my head

[00:20:18] but you know

[00:20:19] what

[00:20:20] I'm going to

[00:20:20] enjoy this

[00:20:21] status

[00:20:22] and this little

[00:20:22] bit of

[00:20:22] ego feeding

[00:20:24] you know

[00:20:24] it's a short term

[00:20:25] thing

[00:20:25] it's going to

[00:20:25] get me through

[00:20:26] this until I

[00:20:26] learn

[00:20:29] to reintegrate

[00:20:29] back in

[00:20:31] and

[00:20:32] yeah

[00:20:32] and then

[00:20:33] you know

[00:20:34] 18 months later

[00:20:35] but

[00:20:35] I was only

[00:20:36] back at school

[00:20:36] part time

[00:20:37] because I was 11

[00:20:38] physio

[00:20:38] four days a week

[00:20:39] so I'd go in

[00:20:40] in the morning

[00:20:41] my mum would

[00:20:41] kind of pick me up

[00:20:42] at 11

[00:20:42] she'd drive me

[00:20:43] the hour

[00:20:43] I had my hour

[00:20:44] physio

[00:20:44] she'd drop me

[00:20:45] back to school

[00:20:45] she'd go home

[00:20:46] we'd do that

[00:20:47] four days a week

[00:20:48] and then

[00:20:48] every holiday

[00:20:49] every half turn

[00:20:50] and I think

[00:20:51] even one bank

[00:20:52] holiday

[00:20:53] we managed

[00:20:54] to fit in

[00:20:54] a lot of quick

[00:20:55] operation in there

[00:20:56] so by May 1995

[00:20:59] I'd had over 30

[00:21:00] operations

[00:21:03] but yeah

[00:21:04] so you know

[00:21:05] the hardest

[00:21:05] day was

[00:21:06] going back to

[00:21:08] school

[00:21:09] the proudest

[00:21:11] that my mum's

[00:21:12] ever been

[00:21:13] my parents

[00:21:14] was when I

[00:21:15] managed to get

[00:21:15] five GTSEs

[00:21:16] you know

[00:21:16] very very part

[00:21:18] time

[00:21:18] and just

[00:21:19] you know

[00:21:19] just blagging

[00:21:21] my way really

[00:21:22] and using

[00:21:22] whatever smarts

[00:21:24] that I'd already

[00:21:24] learned

[00:21:25] to do that

[00:21:26] so yeah

[00:21:27] the day that

[00:21:27] she realised

[00:21:28] I'd actually

[00:21:29] done it

[00:21:31] she was just

[00:21:31] like dumbfounded

[00:21:32] because even

[00:21:33] and it was only

[00:21:34] then I realised

[00:21:35] no one actually

[00:21:36] believed I was

[00:21:36] going to be able

[00:21:36] to do it

[00:21:37] everyone was like

[00:21:38] well we have to

[00:21:38] keep my

[00:21:39] experience up

[00:21:40] right

[00:21:40] we've got to

[00:21:41] support him

[00:21:41] but this is

[00:21:42] just not

[00:21:42] possible

[00:21:45] and then I

[00:21:46] shocked them

[00:21:46] all when I

[00:21:47] turned around

[00:21:47] and said

[00:21:48] that actually

[00:21:49] I want to

[00:21:49] leave this

[00:21:50] school now

[00:21:51] and they were

[00:21:51] like

[00:21:52] we've done

[00:21:53] all this to

[00:21:53] get you back

[00:21:53] in this

[00:21:54] school

[00:21:55] and now

[00:21:55] you want

[00:21:56] to leave

[00:21:58] because I

[00:21:58] had a very

[00:21:59] kind of

[00:22:00] clear goal

[00:22:01] that again

[00:22:01] one of these

[00:22:02] going right

[00:22:02] back to what

[00:22:03] he said

[00:22:03] in terms of

[00:22:04] how people

[00:22:05] painted a

[00:22:07] worrying picture

[00:22:08] I'm not going

[00:22:08] to call it

[00:22:08] negative

[00:22:08] because they

[00:22:09] weren't meaning

[00:22:10] to be negative

[00:22:10] but they were

[00:22:11] going to be

[00:22:12] like you're

[00:22:12] going to face

[00:22:12] this

[00:22:13] you're going

[00:22:13] to encounter

[00:22:13] that

[00:22:14] and it

[00:22:14] was

[00:22:15] they were

[00:22:16] like he might

[00:22:16] never be able

[00:22:17] to live

[00:22:17] on his own

[00:22:18] I was like

[00:22:18] I'm not

[00:22:19] other than that

[00:22:19] so for me

[00:22:20] living on my

[00:22:20] own

[00:22:20] was getting

[00:22:21] to university

[00:22:22] so that

[00:22:22] was

[00:22:23] the first

[00:22:23] goal

[00:22:24] was getting

[00:22:25] back to

[00:22:25] school

[00:22:25] and this

[00:22:26] goes back

[00:22:26] to the

[00:22:26] controllables

[00:22:27] and the

[00:22:27] incontrollables

[00:22:28] as well

[00:22:28] the things

[00:22:29] that I could

[00:22:30] aim and put

[00:22:30] my energy

[00:22:31] towards

[00:22:32] and create

[00:22:32] targets

[00:22:33] to give

[00:22:34] myself a bright

[00:22:34] future

[00:22:35] I would do

[00:22:35] and then the

[00:22:37] incontrollables

[00:22:37] the day to day

[00:22:38] the operations

[00:22:39] it would all be

[00:22:40] about

[00:22:40] trying to stay

[00:22:41] in the present

[00:22:42] because if I

[00:22:42] didn't stay

[00:22:43] in the present

[00:22:44] there was just

[00:22:47] suffering

[00:22:47] just in front

[00:22:48] of me

[00:22:49] was it always

[00:22:50] I just want

[00:22:51] to get to

[00:22:51] the next step

[00:22:52] or did you

[00:22:53] kind of have

[00:22:55] you know

[00:22:55] it's like

[00:22:56] well I want

[00:22:56] to do my

[00:22:57] A-levels

[00:22:58] then I want

[00:22:58] to go to

[00:22:58] uni

[00:22:59] and then

[00:22:59] want to

[00:23:00] do this

[00:23:00] how conscious

[00:23:00] were these

[00:23:01] decisions

[00:23:01] yeah

[00:23:02] 14

[00:23:02] you know

[00:23:03] it's looking

[00:23:05] if I look

[00:23:05] at my 14

[00:23:06] year old

[00:23:06] you know

[00:23:06] I think

[00:23:07] consciously

[00:23:08] staying in

[00:23:08] school

[00:23:09] that was

[00:23:09] conscious

[00:23:10] in terms

[00:23:10] of just

[00:23:11] doing that

[00:23:13] the other

[00:23:14] ones were

[00:23:14] just probably

[00:23:14] me just

[00:23:16] trying to

[00:23:16] prove people

[00:23:17] wrong

[00:23:17] which was

[00:23:18] great

[00:23:18] because people

[00:23:20] you know

[00:23:21] tapped into

[00:23:21] that and

[00:23:22] empowered

[00:23:22] those parts

[00:23:23] of my

[00:23:23] personality

[00:23:24] it wasn't

[00:23:25] like to

[00:23:25] become a

[00:23:26] new person

[00:23:26] to get

[00:23:26] over

[00:23:27] it's like

[00:23:27] okay

[00:23:27] what were

[00:23:29] you born

[00:23:29] with

[00:23:29] and how

[00:23:30] can we

[00:23:30] take what

[00:23:31] you've

[00:23:31] got

[00:23:32] and apply

[00:23:32] it in

[00:23:32] the right

[00:23:33] context

[00:23:33] so

[00:23:34] to turn

[00:23:35] these traits

[00:23:36] into my

[00:23:36] superpowers

[00:23:37] so my

[00:23:38] pig-headedness

[00:23:38] and my

[00:23:38] competitiveness

[00:23:39] and those

[00:23:39] things

[00:23:40] target driven

[00:23:41] right

[00:23:42] I was so

[00:23:42] into sports

[00:23:43] and achieving

[00:23:43] and doing

[00:23:44] those things

[00:23:44] so for me

[00:23:46] staying in

[00:23:46] school

[00:23:47] getting

[00:23:47] and then

[00:23:47] it was

[00:23:48] like

[00:23:48] I've got

[00:23:48] to get

[00:23:48] my A

[00:23:49] level

[00:23:49] but

[00:23:50] by that

[00:23:51] point

[00:23:51] when I was

[00:23:52] near to

[00:23:53] leaving

[00:23:53] secondary

[00:23:54] school

[00:23:55] I was

[00:23:55] very aware

[00:23:56] that I

[00:23:56] was not

[00:23:57] in a

[00:23:57] real

[00:23:57] environment

[00:23:58] I was

[00:23:58] wrapped

[00:23:59] in

[00:23:59] cotton

[00:23:59] wool

[00:23:59] and

[00:24:01] and

[00:24:01] I'd

[00:24:02] seen

[00:24:02] my

[00:24:02] older

[00:24:02] sister

[00:24:04] go

[00:24:04] to

[00:24:04] university

[00:24:05] so she

[00:24:05] went

[00:24:05] to

[00:24:05] university

[00:24:07] the

[00:24:08] September

[00:24:08] after my

[00:24:09] accident

[00:24:09] so

[00:24:10] me and

[00:24:11] mum were

[00:24:11] still in

[00:24:12] Dublin

[00:24:12] when my

[00:24:13] little

[00:24:13] sister

[00:24:13] first went

[00:24:14] to

[00:24:14] secondary

[00:24:14] school

[00:24:14] when my

[00:24:15] older

[00:24:15] sister

[00:24:15] first went

[00:24:16] to

[00:24:16] uni

[00:24:17] and then

[00:24:17] mum

[00:24:17] not being

[00:24:17] there

[00:24:18] to

[00:24:30] convent

[00:24:30] school

[00:24:30] she

[00:24:30] went

[00:24:30] to

[00:24:31] was

[00:24:32] a

[00:24:32] bit

[00:24:32] much

[00:24:32] and

[00:24:32] I

[00:24:33] just

[00:24:33] knew

[00:24:33] that

[00:24:34] mentally

[00:24:35] I

[00:24:36] was

[00:24:36] probably

[00:24:37] immature

[00:24:37] because

[00:24:38] I

[00:24:38] was

[00:24:39] not

[00:24:39] having

[00:24:40] the

[00:24:40] usual

[00:24:40] teenage

[00:24:41] experiences

[00:24:42] that you

[00:24:42] have

[00:24:42] to help

[00:24:42] you

[00:24:43] mature

[00:24:43] so

[00:24:44] when I

[00:24:45] turned

[00:24:45] around

[00:24:45] and

[00:24:45] said

[00:24:45] I'm

[00:24:45] leaving

[00:24:47] everyone

[00:24:47] was

[00:24:47] just

[00:24:48] like

[00:24:48] what

[00:24:49] are

[00:24:49] you

[00:24:49] talking

[00:24:49] about

[00:24:50] and

[00:24:51] I

[00:24:51] said

[00:24:51] how

[00:24:52] am I

[00:24:53] ever

[00:24:53] going

[00:24:53] to

[00:24:54] get

[00:24:54] to

[00:24:55] live

[00:24:55] my

[00:24:55] own

[00:24:56] if

[00:24:56] I'm

[00:24:56] constantly

[00:24:57] in

[00:24:58] this

[00:24:58] make

[00:24:59] believe

[00:24:59] well

[00:25:00] wrapped

[00:25:00] in

[00:25:00] cotton

[00:25:00] wool

[00:25:01] the

[00:25:01] step

[00:25:01] up

[00:25:01] would

[00:25:01] have

[00:25:02] been

[00:25:02] too

[00:25:02] huge

[00:25:04] so

[00:25:04] they're

[00:25:04] like

[00:25:04] okay

[00:25:05] then

[00:25:05] let's

[00:25:05] go

[00:25:05] look

[00:25:05] at

[00:25:06] some

[00:25:06] local

[00:25:06] six-form

[00:25:06] colleges

[00:25:07] and

[00:25:07] ended

[00:25:08] up

[00:25:09] getting

[00:25:10] my

[00:25:10] GCSEs

[00:25:11] and

[00:25:11] then

[00:25:11] leaving

[00:25:11] and

[00:25:11] going

[00:25:12] to

[00:25:12] a

[00:25:13] local

[00:25:13] 2000

[00:25:14] crazy

[00:25:18] mixed

[00:25:18] gender

[00:25:20] six-form

[00:25:20] college

[00:25:21] still

[00:25:21] wearing

[00:25:22] my

[00:25:22] perfect

[00:25:22] mask

[00:25:23] for

[00:25:23] the

[00:25:23] first

[00:25:25] term

[00:25:26] but

[00:25:26] I

[00:25:26] thought

[00:25:26] you know

[00:25:27] what

[00:25:27] nothing

[00:25:27] is

[00:25:27] going

[00:25:27] to

[00:25:27] be

[00:25:28] as

[00:25:28] bad

[00:25:28] as

[00:25:28] going

[00:25:28] back

[00:25:29] as

[00:25:29] as

[00:25:29] if

[00:25:29] I

[00:25:29] can

[00:25:30] do

[00:25:30] that

[00:25:30] I

[00:25:31] can

[00:25:31] do

[00:25:31] this

[00:25:31] and

[00:25:32] that's

[00:25:33] the

[00:25:33] proudest

[00:25:33] thing

[00:25:34] I

[00:25:34] think

[00:25:34] I've

[00:25:34] ever

[00:25:34] done

[00:25:34] making

[00:25:35] that

[00:25:36] proactive

[00:25:36] decision

[00:25:38] I'd

[00:25:38] been so

[00:25:38] used to

[00:25:39] change

[00:25:39] by then

[00:25:40] that I

[00:25:40] was

[00:25:41] starting

[00:25:41] to

[00:25:41] not

[00:25:42] embrace

[00:25:42] it

[00:25:43] but

[00:25:43] not

[00:25:44] fearful

[00:25:44] of

[00:25:44] it

[00:25:45] facing

[00:25:46] into

[00:25:46] it

[00:25:47] and

[00:25:47] compared

[00:25:48] to

[00:25:48] everything

[00:25:48] else

[00:25:48] I've

[00:25:48] gone

[00:25:48] through

[00:25:49] actually

[00:25:49] that

[00:25:50] wasn't

[00:25:50] so

[00:25:50] bad

[00:25:50] by

[00:25:51] then

[00:25:51] and

[00:25:52] it

[00:25:52] was

[00:25:52] one

[00:25:53] of

[00:25:53] the

[00:25:54] best

[00:25:54] decisions

[00:25:54] I've

[00:25:54] ever

[00:25:54] made

[00:25:55] that

[00:25:55] probably

[00:25:55] is the

[00:25:55] best

[00:25:56] decision

[00:25:56] I've

[00:25:56] ever

[00:25:56] made

[00:25:56] in my

[00:25:56] life

[00:25:57] did

[00:25:57] you

[00:25:57] ever

[00:25:57] think

[00:25:58] of

[00:25:58] giving

[00:25:58] up

[00:25:58] you

[00:25:59] must

[00:25:59] have

[00:25:59] at

[00:26:00] some

[00:26:00] point

[00:26:00] I

[00:26:00] think

[00:26:01] yeah

[00:26:02] I mean

[00:26:02] even to

[00:26:03] this day

[00:26:04] I think

[00:26:04] about

[00:26:04] giving

[00:26:04] up

[00:26:06] but I

[00:26:06] also

[00:26:06] think

[00:26:07] fantasize

[00:26:08] about

[00:26:08] what life

[00:26:09] could have

[00:26:09] been

[00:26:09] differently

[00:26:09] and

[00:26:11] fantasize

[00:26:11] what it

[00:26:12] would be

[00:26:12] like

[00:26:13] to be

[00:26:13] someone

[00:26:13] else

[00:26:13] and

[00:26:14] what

[00:26:14] they're

[00:26:14] living

[00:26:15] but

[00:26:17] realizing

[00:26:17] that

[00:26:18] my

[00:26:18] thoughts

[00:26:19] weren't

[00:26:19] me

[00:26:19] they

[00:26:20] were

[00:26:20] just

[00:26:20] thoughts

[00:26:21] so

[00:26:22] you

[00:26:22] process

[00:26:22] them

[00:26:22] and

[00:26:24] so

[00:26:25] yeah

[00:26:25] for

[00:26:25] sure

[00:26:27] suicide

[00:26:27] was an

[00:26:28] option

[00:26:30] but

[00:26:30] then

[00:26:31] understanding

[00:26:31] that my

[00:26:32] thoughts

[00:26:33] aren't

[00:26:33] me

[00:26:33] and

[00:26:33] they

[00:26:33] don't

[00:26:34] define

[00:26:34] me

[00:26:34] because

[00:26:35] I

[00:26:35] think

[00:26:36] back

[00:26:36] and

[00:26:36] dream

[00:26:37] about

[00:26:37] being

[00:26:37] a

[00:26:39] professional

[00:26:39] footballer

[00:26:40] but

[00:26:41] that doesn't

[00:26:41] mean

[00:26:41] that

[00:26:42] suddenly

[00:26:46] they're

[00:26:46] not real

[00:26:47] so

[00:26:48] I had

[00:26:49] this

[00:26:50] crazy

[00:26:50] amount

[00:26:51] of

[00:26:51] life

[00:26:52] lessons

[00:26:52] very

[00:26:53] early

[00:26:53] on

[00:26:54] and

[00:26:55] in

[00:26:55] one

[00:26:56] way

[00:26:56] that

[00:26:56] is

[00:26:56] horrific

[00:26:57] but

[00:26:57] then

[00:26:57] there's

[00:26:58] a

[00:26:58] flip

[00:26:58] side

[00:26:58] to

[00:26:59] that

[00:26:59] and

[00:26:59] being

[00:27:00] 14

[00:27:01] hitting

[00:27:02] puberty

[00:27:03] going

[00:27:03] through

[00:27:04] the

[00:27:04] second

[00:27:04] biggest

[00:27:04] growth

[00:27:04] spurt

[00:27:05] of my

[00:27:06] life

[00:27:06] I

[00:27:07] had

[00:27:07] the

[00:27:08] opportunity

[00:27:08] to

[00:27:08] create

[00:27:08] all

[00:27:09] these

[00:27:09] new

[00:27:09] pathways

[00:27:09] right

[00:27:10] so

[00:27:11] and

[00:27:12] then

[00:27:12] locked

[00:27:12] in

[00:27:12] as

[00:27:13] your

[00:27:13] character

[00:27:13] traits

[00:27:13] for

[00:27:14] the

[00:27:14] rest

[00:27:15] of

[00:27:15] your

[00:27:15] life

[00:27:15] so

[00:27:16] but

[00:27:16] I

[00:27:17] was

[00:27:17] very

[00:27:17] lucky

[00:27:17] that

[00:27:18] I

[00:27:18] was

[00:27:18] in

[00:27:18] this

[00:27:19] incredible

[00:27:19] context

[00:27:20] of

[00:27:20] this

[00:27:20] supportive

[00:27:20] community

[00:27:21] that

[00:27:21] allowed

[00:27:21] me

[00:27:22] the

[00:27:22] space

[00:27:23] to be

[00:27:23] able to

[00:27:23] learn

[00:27:24] those

[00:27:24] lessons

[00:27:24] so

[00:27:24] all

[00:27:24] these

[00:27:25] things

[00:27:25] were

[00:27:25] just

[00:27:25] locking

[00:27:26] in

[00:27:26] locking

[00:27:27] in

[00:27:27] I

[00:27:27] think

[00:27:28] if

[00:27:28] I'd

[00:27:28] been

[00:27:28] 21

[00:27:40] it's

[00:27:40] always

[00:27:40] balanced

[00:27:41] up

[00:27:41] by

[00:27:41] light

[00:27:41] and

[00:27:41] it's

[00:27:42] where

[00:27:42] you're

[00:27:42] looking

[00:27:43] and

[00:27:43] again

[00:27:44] it's

[00:27:44] easier

[00:27:44] to

[00:27:44] look

[00:27:45] back

[00:27:45] and

[00:27:45] see

[00:27:45] this

[00:27:46] but

[00:27:46] that

[00:27:47] doesn't

[00:27:47] really

[00:27:47] matter

[00:27:47] if

[00:27:48] the

[00:27:48] lessons

[00:27:48] are

[00:27:48] there

[00:27:48] the

[00:27:48] lessons

[00:27:49] are

[00:27:49] there

[00:27:51] yeah

[00:27:52] I mean

[00:27:53] we haven't

[00:27:54] I'm

[00:27:54] jumping ahead

[00:27:55] of it

[00:27:55] you haven't

[00:27:56] talked about

[00:27:57] what you

[00:27:57] did

[00:27:58] after

[00:27:58] uni

[00:27:59] well

[00:28:00] and all

[00:28:00] the success

[00:28:00] you had

[00:28:02] so I

[00:28:02] don't know

[00:28:02] if you

[00:28:03] want to

[00:28:03] talk about

[00:28:03] that

[00:28:04] then I'll

[00:28:05] come in

[00:28:05] one

[00:28:05] next

[00:28:06] yeah

[00:28:06] well

[00:28:07] I think

[00:28:10] I can

[00:28:11] categorise

[00:28:12] my life

[00:28:12] up into

[00:28:13] different

[00:28:13] segments

[00:28:14] there was

[00:28:14] the first

[00:28:15] 14 years

[00:28:15] and

[00:28:16] that was

[00:28:17] the old

[00:28:17] me

[00:28:17] so I

[00:28:17] don't

[00:28:18] really

[00:28:18] count

[00:28:18] that

[00:28:18] there's

[00:28:19] three

[00:28:19] stages

[00:28:20] and

[00:28:20] the first

[00:28:20] was

[00:28:20] five

[00:28:21] years

[00:28:21] of

[00:28:22] recovery

[00:28:24] which

[00:28:25] was

[00:28:25] survival

[00:28:26] getting

[00:28:26] my dignity

[00:28:26] back

[00:28:27] and

[00:28:28] getting

[00:28:29] my

[00:28:29] independence

[00:28:29] gaining

[00:28:30] it

[00:28:30] getting

[00:28:31] to

[00:28:31] university

[00:28:31] and

[00:28:32] then

[00:28:32] I

[00:28:33] got

[00:28:33] to

[00:28:34] university

[00:28:34] and

[00:28:36] at

[00:28:36] that

[00:28:36] point

[00:28:37] I

[00:28:37] was

[00:28:37] like

[00:28:37] right

[00:28:38] my

[00:28:38] life

[00:28:38] really

[00:28:38] really

[00:28:39] does

[00:28:39] start

[00:28:39] now

[00:28:39] and

[00:28:41] rather

[00:28:42] than

[00:28:42] running

[00:28:43] away

[00:28:43] from

[00:28:43] trauma

[00:28:43] I

[00:28:44] describe

[00:28:44] it

[00:28:44] as

[00:28:44] I

[00:28:45] decided

[00:28:45] to

[00:28:45] run

[00:28:45] into

[00:28:45] life

[00:28:46] so

[00:28:48] and

[00:28:48] I

[00:28:48] didn't

[00:28:49] you know

[00:28:49] I was

[00:28:49] using words

[00:28:50] that

[00:28:50] Vinka

[00:28:50] Frankel uses

[00:28:51] now but

[00:28:51] in my

[00:28:52] own

[00:28:52] mind

[00:28:52] differently

[00:28:53] if you've

[00:28:53] ever read

[00:28:53] his writing

[00:28:54] it's

[00:28:55] unbelievable

[00:28:56] and it's

[00:28:56] about

[00:28:56] justifying

[00:28:57] your

[00:28:57] trauma

[00:28:57] so

[00:28:58] I

[00:28:58] look

[00:28:58] back

[00:28:59] at

[00:28:59] the

[00:28:59] five

[00:28:59] years

[00:28:59] I

[00:28:59] just

[00:29:00] have

[00:29:00] and

[00:29:00] now

[00:29:00] I've

[00:29:01] got

[00:29:01] this

[00:29:02] open

[00:29:02] slate

[00:29:03] of

[00:29:08] positive

[00:29:08] for

[00:29:08] me

[00:29:08] so

[00:29:09] I

[00:29:09] felt

[00:29:09] really

[00:29:09] empowered

[00:29:10] that

[00:29:10] I

[00:29:10] could

[00:29:10] make

[00:29:10] whatever

[00:29:10] decisions

[00:29:11] I

[00:29:11] wanted

[00:29:13] so

[00:29:13] I

[00:29:14] know

[00:29:14] by

[00:29:15] the

[00:29:15] universe

[00:29:15] or

[00:29:15] God

[00:29:16] or

[00:29:16] whatever

[00:29:16] you

[00:29:16] want

[00:29:16] to

[00:29:16] believe

[00:29:17] in

[00:29:17] that

[00:29:19] some

[00:29:20] good

[00:29:20] stuff

[00:29:20] must

[00:29:20] be

[00:29:21] around

[00:29:21] the

[00:29:21] corner

[00:29:21] if

[00:29:21] I've

[00:29:22] just

[00:29:22] done

[00:29:22] that

[00:29:22] but

[00:29:23] the

[00:29:23] good

[00:29:23] stuff

[00:29:24] is

[00:29:24] not

[00:29:24] just

[00:29:24] going

[00:29:24] to

[00:29:24] come

[00:29:24] to

[00:29:25] me

[00:29:26] I

[00:29:26] need

[00:29:26] to

[00:29:26] go

[00:29:26] and

[00:29:27] get

[00:29:27] it

[00:29:27] and

[00:29:27] what

[00:29:28] I

[00:29:28] learned

[00:29:28] about

[00:29:29] going

[00:29:29] and getting

[00:29:29] what I

[00:29:38] down

[00:29:38] and

[00:29:38] two

[00:29:38] steps

[00:29:38] forward

[00:29:39] and

[00:29:39] one

[00:29:39] step

[00:29:39] back

[00:29:40] and

[00:29:40] university

[00:29:41] is

[00:29:41] incredible

[00:29:41] it's

[00:29:42] like

[00:29:42] an

[00:29:42] extension

[00:29:42] of

[00:29:44] sixth

[00:29:45] form

[00:29:45] college

[00:29:45] but

[00:29:46] also

[00:29:46] in terms

[00:29:46] of

[00:29:46] broadening

[00:29:47] my

[00:29:47] horizons

[00:29:48] my

[00:29:48] upbringing

[00:29:50] how

[00:29:50] kind

[00:29:50] of

[00:29:50] quite

[00:29:51] narrow

[00:29:51] it

[00:29:51] was

[00:29:51] with

[00:29:52] this

[00:29:52] Irish

[00:29:52] Catholic

[00:29:52] community

[00:29:53] and

[00:30:08] that

[00:30:08] and

[00:30:09] then

[00:30:09] I

[00:30:09] got

[00:30:09] turned

[00:30:10] down

[00:30:10] for

[00:30:11] five

[00:30:11] placement

[00:30:12] jobs

[00:30:12] in

[00:30:12] my

[00:30:12] third

[00:30:13] year

[00:30:13] uni

[00:30:13] all

[00:30:13] in

[00:30:14] the

[00:30:14] city

[00:30:14] one

[00:30:15] of

[00:30:15] them

[00:30:15] telling

[00:30:15] me

[00:30:15] I

[00:30:16] had

[00:30:16] too

[00:30:17] much

[00:30:17] empathy

[00:30:17] to

[00:30:17] work

[00:30:18] in

[00:30:18] the

[00:30:18] city

[00:30:19] and

[00:30:20] I

[00:30:20] found

[00:30:21] it

[00:30:22] awful

[00:30:22] at

[00:30:22] the

[00:30:23] time

[00:30:23] but

[00:30:23] I

[00:30:23] look

[00:30:23] back

[00:30:23] now

[00:30:24] it's

[00:30:24] like

[00:30:24] one

[00:30:24] of

[00:30:24] the

[00:30:24] best

[00:30:24] things

[00:30:25] that

[00:30:25] ever

[00:30:25] happened

[00:30:26] to

[00:30:26] me

[00:30:26] that

[00:30:27] door

[00:30:27] closed

[00:30:27] to

[00:30:27] me

[00:30:27] and

[00:30:28] I

[00:30:28] don't

[00:30:28] want

[00:30:28] to

[00:30:28] change

[00:30:28] who

[00:30:29] I

[00:30:29] am

[00:30:29] my

[00:30:30] experiences

[00:30:30] have

[00:30:31] shaped

[00:30:31] me

[00:30:31] into

[00:30:31] this

[00:30:31] person

[00:30:33] so

[00:30:33] I

[00:30:33] had

[00:30:34] to

[00:30:34] go

[00:30:34] back

[00:30:35] to

[00:30:35] my

[00:30:35] parents

[00:30:35] for

[00:30:35] that

[00:30:36] year

[00:30:36] get

[00:30:37] a

[00:30:37] placement

[00:30:38] with

[00:30:40] the

[00:30:41] national

[00:30:41] grid

[00:30:41] it was

[00:30:42] boring

[00:30:43] it wasn't

[00:30:43] like

[00:30:43] working

[00:30:44] in

[00:30:44] the

[00:30:44] city

[00:30:44] adventurous

[00:30:44] but

[00:30:45] I

[00:30:45] didn't

[00:30:46] pay

[00:30:46] rent

[00:30:46] saved

[00:30:46] up

[00:30:47] money

[00:30:47] went

[00:30:48] travelling

[00:30:48] for

[00:30:48] six

[00:30:49] weeks

[00:30:49] the

[00:30:49] next

[00:30:49] summer

[00:30:49] to

[00:30:50] Central

[00:30:50] America

[00:30:51] and

[00:30:51] I

[00:30:51] was

[00:30:51] like

[00:30:52] oh

[00:30:52] my

[00:30:52] god

[00:30:53] there's

[00:30:54] a

[00:30:54] whole

[00:30:54] world

[00:30:54] out

[00:30:55] there

[00:30:55] what

[00:30:55] am

[00:30:55] I

[00:30:55] doing

[00:30:56] I

[00:30:57] could

[00:30:57] have

[00:30:57] just

[00:30:57] gone

[00:30:57] to

[00:30:57] the

[00:30:57] city

[00:30:57] and

[00:30:58] stuff

[00:30:58] like

[00:30:58] that

[00:30:58] so

[00:30:58] then

[00:30:59] straight

[00:30:59] back

[00:31:00] I

[00:31:00] was

[00:31:00] like

[00:31:00] I'm

[00:31:00] getting

[00:31:00] my

[00:31:00] degree

[00:31:02] and

[00:31:02] then

[00:31:02] I'm

[00:31:02] going

[00:31:03] and

[00:31:03] I'm

[00:31:03] gone

[00:31:04] so

[00:31:05] and I

[00:31:05] was

[00:31:05] like

[00:31:05] no one's

[00:31:06] going to

[00:31:06] stop me

[00:31:06] and

[00:31:07] you

[00:31:07] know

[00:31:08] people have

[00:31:08] always

[00:31:09] tried to

[00:31:09] stop

[00:31:09] me

[00:31:10] and

[00:31:10] I

[00:31:11] haven't

[00:31:11] quite

[00:31:11] listened

[00:31:11] because

[00:31:12] of

[00:31:12] obvious

[00:31:12] things

[00:31:13] that

[00:31:13] have

[00:31:13] happened

[00:31:13] to

[00:31:13] me

[00:31:13] and

[00:31:14] just

[00:31:14] yeah

[00:31:14] travelled

[00:31:15] extensively

[00:31:15] and

[00:31:16] then

[00:31:16] drifted

[00:31:16] and

[00:31:17] then

[00:31:26] that

[00:31:26] didn't

[00:31:27] quite

[00:31:27] work

[00:31:27] out

[00:31:28] for

[00:31:29] various

[00:31:29] reasons

[00:31:31] but

[00:31:31] you know

[00:31:32] it turns out

[00:31:33] I was

[00:31:33] pretty good

[00:31:34] at writing

[00:31:34] and talking

[00:31:34] about it

[00:31:35] and

[00:31:35] got in

[00:31:36] at the

[00:31:36] very

[00:31:36] early

[00:31:37] stages

[00:31:37] of

[00:31:38] the

[00:31:38] industry

[00:31:38] especially

[00:31:39] in

[00:31:39] Europe

[00:31:39] and

[00:31:40] started

[00:31:40] writing

[00:31:41] freelance

[00:31:41] and

[00:31:41] travelling

[00:31:42] to

[00:31:42] tournaments

[00:31:42] and

[00:31:42] I

[00:31:43] just

[00:31:43] thought

[00:31:43] this is

[00:31:44] the way

[00:31:44] I

[00:31:44] continued

[00:31:44] to

[00:31:44] travel

[00:31:45] the

[00:31:45] world

[00:31:46] and

[00:31:47] then

[00:31:47] the

[00:31:47] industry

[00:31:47] exploded

[00:31:48] and

[00:31:55] they

[00:31:56] realised

[00:31:56] I

[00:31:56] had

[00:31:57] a

[00:31:57] pretty

[00:31:57] big

[00:31:57] gob

[00:31:59] which

[00:31:59] is

[00:31:59] coming

[00:32:00] in

[00:32:00] handy

[00:32:00] these

[00:32:00] days

[00:32:01] as

[00:32:01] well

[00:32:02] so

[00:32:02] then

[00:32:02] I

[00:32:02] started

[00:32:03] commentating

[00:32:03] and

[00:32:03] winning

[00:32:04] awards

[00:32:04] and

[00:32:06] just

[00:32:06] travelled

[00:32:06] around

[00:32:07] the

[00:32:07] world

[00:32:07] for

[00:32:07] over

[00:32:08] a

[00:32:08] decade

[00:32:09] writing

[00:32:10] and

[00:32:10] talking

[00:32:10] about

[00:32:11] people

[00:32:11] winning

[00:32:12] or losing

[00:32:12] millions

[00:32:13] of pounds

[00:32:15] it was

[00:32:15] quite

[00:32:16] the ride

[00:32:17] but

[00:32:18] definitely

[00:32:18] not

[00:32:18] in

[00:32:19] any

[00:32:19] career

[00:32:20] book

[00:32:20] manual

[00:32:20] or

[00:32:21] anything

[00:32:21] like

[00:32:21] that

[00:32:22] so

[00:32:23] my

[00:32:23] question

[00:32:24] is

[00:32:24] do

[00:32:25] you

[00:32:25] think

[00:32:25] you

[00:32:26] would

[00:32:26] have

[00:32:26] done

[00:32:28] that

[00:32:28] if

[00:32:29] you

[00:32:29] hadn't

[00:32:29] had

[00:32:30] that

[00:32:30] pivotal

[00:32:30] experience

[00:32:31] at

[00:32:31] 14

[00:32:32] absolutely

[00:32:32] and

[00:32:33] I

[00:32:33] actually

[00:32:33] want to

[00:32:34] bring

[00:32:34] you

[00:32:34] back

[00:32:34] to

[00:32:36] one

[00:32:37] of

[00:32:37] the

[00:32:38] hardest

[00:32:39] conversations

[00:32:39] I had

[00:32:40] when I was

[00:32:40] back in Ireland

[00:32:41] when I was

[00:32:41] speaking to my

[00:32:41] cousin Brendan

[00:32:42] who was

[00:32:43] the one who

[00:32:44] had to deal

[00:32:45] with guilt

[00:32:46] for me

[00:32:47] his entire

[00:32:47] life

[00:32:48] and

[00:32:50] one of

[00:32:51] the ways

[00:32:51] that

[00:32:52] he's

[00:32:53] fascinated

[00:32:53] by my

[00:32:54] relationship

[00:32:54] with

[00:32:54] pain

[00:32:55] and how

[00:32:55] I

[00:32:55] write

[00:32:55] about

[00:32:56] it

[00:32:56] and

[00:32:56] he

[00:32:56] has

[00:32:56] a

[00:32:57] in terms

[00:32:58] of

[00:32:58] you

[00:32:58] build up

[00:32:59] this

[00:32:59] incredible

[00:33:00] tolerance

[00:33:00] to

[00:33:00] pain

[00:33:02] and

[00:33:02] for him

[00:33:03] to

[00:33:04] think

[00:33:04] he nearly

[00:33:05] played a part

[00:33:05] in killing

[00:33:06] his first

[00:33:06] cousin

[00:33:07] and then

[00:33:07] seeing the

[00:33:07] suffering

[00:33:08] I went

[00:33:08] through

[00:33:09] he had

[00:33:09] to learn

[00:33:10] to deal

[00:33:10] with guilt

[00:33:10] in a similar

[00:33:11] way I had

[00:33:11] to deal

[00:33:12] with pain

[00:33:12] which is

[00:33:13] fascinating

[00:33:13] to hear

[00:33:14] it

[00:33:14] and

[00:33:14] I'm going

[00:33:15] to put

[00:33:15] that writing

[00:33:15] into my

[00:33:16] stuff

[00:33:16] because

[00:33:17] he's

[00:33:17] written

[00:33:17] some

[00:33:17] stuff

[00:33:18] for me

[00:33:18] which

[00:33:18] is

[00:33:18] incredible

[00:33:19] but

[00:33:19] one

[00:33:20] of the

[00:33:20] things

[00:33:20] that

[00:33:21] very

[00:33:22] recently

[00:33:22] that

[00:33:22] helped

[00:33:23] him

[00:33:23] was

[00:33:23] he

[00:33:23] he's

[00:33:24] now

[00:33:24] in

[00:33:25] Madrid

[00:33:25] with a

[00:33:26] beautiful

[00:33:26] wife

[00:33:26] and two

[00:33:27] beautiful

[00:33:27] daughters

[00:33:28] and

[00:33:30] anything

[00:33:30] in your

[00:33:31] life

[00:33:31] can

[00:33:31] change

[00:33:33] anything

[00:33:33] sliding

[00:33:34] doors

[00:33:34] however

[00:33:34] you

[00:33:51] if

[00:33:51] we

[00:33:51] had

[00:33:51] to

[00:33:52] pick

[00:33:52] one

[00:33:53] of

[00:33:53] us

[00:33:53] from

[00:33:53] that

[00:33:54] generation

[00:33:54] who

[00:33:55] would

[00:33:55] not

[00:33:55] have

[00:33:55] accepted

[00:33:56] living

[00:33:56] a

[00:33:56] mundane

[00:33:56] life

[00:33:57] it

[00:33:57] would

[00:33:57] have

[00:33:57] been

[00:33:57] me

[00:33:58] so

[00:33:59] whether

[00:34:00] or

[00:34:00] not

[00:34:00] you

[00:34:00] believe

[00:34:01] in fate

[00:34:01] and these

[00:34:01] things

[00:34:01] meant

[00:34:02] to

[00:34:02] happen

[00:34:02] I

[00:34:03] wouldn't

[00:34:03] change

[00:34:03] anything

[00:34:04] for the

[00:34:04] world

[00:34:04] because

[00:34:06] he sent

[00:34:06] me

[00:34:06] on

[00:34:06] this

[00:34:07] most

[00:34:07] incredible

[00:34:07] adventure

[00:34:08] of

[00:34:08] lifestyle

[00:34:09] and

[00:34:09] I'm

[00:34:10] so

[00:34:10] lucky

[00:34:10] that

[00:34:11] mentally

[00:34:11] I'm

[00:34:11] okay

[00:34:12] physically

[00:34:13] we

[00:34:13] can

[00:34:13] get

[00:34:13] over

[00:34:14] these

[00:34:14] things

[00:34:15] and

[00:34:16] I

[00:34:16] agreed

[00:34:16] with

[00:34:17] him

[00:34:17] and

[00:34:17] it

[00:34:18] was

[00:34:18] a

[00:34:18] lovely

[00:34:19] not

[00:34:20] foreclosure

[00:34:21] but

[00:34:21] a

[00:34:22] lovely

[00:34:22] sense

[00:34:23] of

[00:34:23] almost

[00:34:24] foreclosure

[00:34:24] that

[00:34:25] we're

[00:34:25] both

[00:34:27] extremely

[00:34:28] content

[00:34:28] with

[00:34:29] who

[00:34:29] we

[00:34:29] are

[00:34:29] despite

[00:34:30] this

[00:34:32] crazy

[00:34:32] event

[00:34:32] that

[00:34:33] we

[00:34:33] both

[00:34:33] caused

[00:34:35] if I

[00:34:36] remember

[00:34:37] correctly

[00:34:37] from

[00:34:37] the

[00:34:38] podcast

[00:34:38] you

[00:34:38] never

[00:34:39] had

[00:34:39] therapy

[00:34:39] did

[00:34:39] you

[00:34:39] 15

[00:34:41] minutes

[00:34:41] I

[00:34:46] glad

[00:34:46] you

[00:34:47] brought

[00:34:47] that

[00:34:47] out

[00:34:49] obviously

[00:34:50] you

[00:34:50] have

[00:34:50] ups

[00:34:50] and

[00:34:51] downs

[00:34:51] I'm

[00:34:51] not

[00:34:51] going

[00:34:52] to

[00:34:52] sit

[00:34:52] here

[00:34:52] and

[00:34:52] tell

[00:34:52] you

[00:34:52] that

[00:34:53] I

[00:34:53] was

[00:34:54] jolly

[00:34:55] every

[00:34:55] day

[00:34:55] there

[00:34:55] were

[00:34:55] some

[00:34:56] horrendous

[00:34:56] dark

[00:34:56] times

[00:34:57] that

[00:34:57] you

[00:34:58] get

[00:34:58] through

[00:34:58] that

[00:34:58] so

[00:34:58] many

[00:34:59] have

[00:34:59] forgotten

[00:35:00] and

[00:35:00] I'm

[00:35:00] really

[00:35:00] glad

[00:35:01] so

[00:35:01] I

[00:35:02] do

[00:35:02] look

[00:35:02] back

[00:35:02] a

[00:35:02] little

[00:35:02] bit

[00:35:03] through

[00:35:03] roasting

[00:35:03] the

[00:35:03] glasses

[00:35:04] but

[00:35:16] so

[00:35:17] I

[00:35:17] was

[00:35:17] in

[00:35:17] Roe

[00:35:18] Hampton

[00:35:18] in

[00:35:18] Queen

[00:35:19] Mary's

[00:35:19] Hospital

[00:35:19] and

[00:35:20] maybe

[00:35:22] I'd

[00:35:22] had

[00:35:23] two

[00:35:23] or

[00:35:23] three

[00:35:23] operations

[00:35:24] that

[00:35:24] week

[00:35:24] and

[00:35:24] it

[00:35:24] was

[00:35:24] a bit

[00:35:24] tough

[00:35:26] but

[00:35:27] there

[00:35:27] wasn't

[00:35:27] really

[00:35:27] much

[00:35:28] therapy

[00:35:29] open

[00:35:29] you

[00:35:30] know

[00:35:31] stuff like

[00:35:32] PTSD

[00:35:32] was only

[00:35:32] just

[00:35:32] really

[00:35:33] becoming

[00:35:33] a

[00:35:34] thing

[00:35:34] growth

[00:35:35] during

[00:35:35] the

[00:35:35] 90s

[00:35:36] it

[00:35:37] was

[00:35:37] very

[00:35:37] much

[00:35:37] kind

[00:35:37] of

[00:35:38] crack

[00:35:38] on

[00:35:39] but

[00:35:40] my

[00:35:40] mum

[00:35:40] she

[00:35:42] battled

[00:35:42] for

[00:35:42] me

[00:35:43] and

[00:35:43] she

[00:35:43] was

[00:35:44] trying

[00:35:44] to

[00:35:44] find

[00:35:44] they

[00:35:45] found

[00:35:45] a

[00:35:46] therapist

[00:35:46] that

[00:35:46] came

[00:35:47] in

[00:35:47] and

[00:35:47] sat

[00:35:47] down

[00:35:47] with

[00:35:47] me

[00:35:48] and

[00:35:49] and

[00:35:50] you

[00:35:50] know

[00:35:50] bless

[00:35:50] her

[00:35:51] I

[00:35:51] probably

[00:35:51] wasn't

[00:35:51] too

[00:35:51] easy

[00:35:52] on

[00:35:52] her

[00:35:53] but

[00:35:53] it

[00:35:53] felt

[00:35:53] like

[00:35:53] she

[00:35:54] had

[00:35:54] just

[00:35:54] come

[00:35:55] off

[00:35:55] her

[00:35:55] course

[00:35:56] at

[00:35:56] uni

[00:35:56] and

[00:35:57] she

[00:35:57] was

[00:35:58] like

[00:35:58] well

[00:35:58] you

[00:35:59] must

[00:36:00] have

[00:36:00] been

[00:36:00] feeling

[00:36:00] this

[00:36:00] and

[00:36:01] this

[00:36:01] so

[00:36:01] far

[00:36:01] and

[00:36:01] I

[00:36:01] was

[00:36:02] like

[00:36:02] well

[00:36:02] no

[00:36:02] not

[00:36:02] really

[00:36:03] and

[00:36:04] that

[00:36:04] conversation

[00:36:04] went

[00:36:05] on

[00:36:05] for

[00:36:05] a bit

[00:36:05] and

[00:36:05] then

[00:36:05] it

[00:36:05] would

[00:36:06] be

[00:36:06] like

[00:36:07] you

[00:36:07] you

[00:36:07] likely

[00:36:07] to

[00:36:08] be

[00:36:08] going

[00:36:08] to

[00:36:08] be

[00:36:08] feeling

[00:36:09] this

[00:36:09] going

[00:36:09] forward

[00:36:09] and

[00:36:10] like

[00:36:10] no

[00:36:10] no

[00:36:10] no

[00:36:10] no

[00:36:10] no

[00:36:10] no

[00:36:11] don't

[00:36:11] put

[00:36:11] those

[00:36:12] things

[00:36:12] in

[00:36:37] fine

[00:36:38] but

[00:36:40] it

[00:36:40] wasn't

[00:36:40] that

[00:36:40] I

[00:36:41] didn't

[00:36:41] have

[00:36:41] therapy

[00:36:41] they

[00:36:42] just

[00:36:42] didn't

[00:36:42] have

[00:36:42] the

[00:36:43] therapist

[00:36:43] label

[00:36:43] on

[00:36:43] them

[00:36:44] I

[00:36:44] had

[00:36:45] incredible

[00:36:45] people

[00:36:45] around

[00:36:46] me

[00:36:46] and

[00:36:46] I

[00:36:46] actually

[00:36:46] credit

[00:36:47] my

[00:36:47] physiotherapist

[00:36:48] Claire

[00:36:49] who I

[00:36:50] recently

[00:36:51] reconnected

[00:36:52] with

[00:36:52] and

[00:36:53] I

[00:36:54] was

[00:36:54] spending

[00:36:55] four

[00:36:56] days

[00:36:56] a

[00:36:56] week

[00:36:56] with

[00:36:57] her

[00:36:57] hours

[00:36:57] and

[00:36:57] hours

[00:36:57] and

[00:36:58] hours

[00:36:58] sat

[00:36:58] off

[00:36:58] each

[00:36:59] other

[00:36:59] and

[00:37:00] her

[00:37:01] conversations

[00:37:02] and

[00:37:02] just

[00:37:03] normal

[00:37:03] day

[00:37:04] life

[00:37:04] making

[00:37:04] me

[00:37:04] feel

[00:37:04] normal

[00:37:05] and

[00:37:06] those

[00:37:06] kind

[00:37:06] of

[00:37:07] things

[00:37:07] were

[00:37:07] great

[00:37:08] and

[00:37:08] all

[00:37:08] I

[00:37:08] really

[00:37:08] needed

[00:37:09] was

[00:37:09] people

[00:37:09] around

[00:37:09] me

[00:37:09] to

[00:37:10] empower

[00:37:11] me

[00:37:12] to

[00:37:13] take

[00:37:13] care

[00:37:14] of

[00:37:14] my

[00:37:14] own

[00:37:14] well-being

[00:37:15] and

[00:37:15] a

[00:37:15] really

[00:37:16] big

[00:37:16] believer

[00:37:16] in

[00:37:16] that

[00:37:17] I

[00:37:17] think

[00:37:17] resilience

[00:37:17] has

[00:37:18] become

[00:37:18] a bit

[00:37:18] of

[00:37:18] a

[00:37:19] dirty

[00:37:19] word

[00:37:20] in

[00:37:20] recent

[00:37:20] years

[00:37:21] and

[00:37:21] not

[00:37:22] that

[00:37:22] it

[00:37:22] makes

[00:37:22] me

[00:37:22] angry

[00:37:23] but

[00:37:23] I

[00:37:23] want

[00:37:23] to

[00:37:23] bring

[00:37:24] resilience

[00:37:24] back

[00:37:24] as

[00:37:34] leave

[00:37:35] behind

[00:37:35] what

[00:37:35] was

[00:37:35] good

[00:37:35] about

[00:37:37] that

[00:37:37] it

[00:37:37] was

[00:37:37] your

[00:37:38] responsibility

[00:37:38] to

[00:37:38] take

[00:37:39] care

[00:37:39] of

[00:37:39] your

[00:37:39] own

[00:37:39] well-being

[00:37:40] and

[00:37:40] I

[00:37:40] feel

[00:37:41] like

[00:37:41] the

[00:37:41] pendulum

[00:37:41] has

[00:37:41] swung

[00:37:42] a

[00:37:42] little

[00:37:42] bit

[00:37:42] too

[00:37:42] far

[00:37:43] one

[00:37:43] way

[00:37:44] and

[00:37:45] what

[00:37:45] we

[00:37:45] need

[00:37:46] to

[00:37:46] do

[00:37:46] is

[00:37:47] battle

[00:37:47] this

[00:37:47] from

[00:37:47] both

[00:37:48] sides

[00:37:48] we

[00:37:48] need

[00:37:48] to

[00:37:48] be

[00:37:48] more

[00:37:49] compassionate

[00:37:49] more

[00:37:49] understanding

[00:37:50] more

[00:37:50] welcoming

[00:37:51] more

[00:37:51] diverse

[00:37:51] more

[00:37:52] inclusive

[00:37:52] all

[00:37:52] these

[00:37:53] things

[00:37:53] but

[00:38:04] isn't

[00:38:05] maybe

[00:38:05] we'll

[00:38:05] get

[00:38:05] into

[00:38:06] this

[00:38:06] more

[00:38:06] and

[00:38:06] bring

[00:38:06] rose

[00:38:07] into

[00:38:07] it

[00:38:07] is

[00:38:09] my

[00:38:09] life

[00:38:10] had

[00:38:10] unbelievable

[00:38:11] value

[00:38:11] from the

[00:38:11] very

[00:38:11] first

[00:38:12] day

[00:38:12] I

[00:38:12] woke

[00:38:12] up

[00:38:12] from

[00:38:13] a

[00:38:13] coma

[00:38:13] the

[00:38:14] people

[00:38:14] around

[00:38:14] me

[00:38:14] showed

[00:38:15] me

[00:38:15] that

[00:38:15] I

[00:38:15] was

[00:38:15] adding

[00:38:16] value

[00:38:16] to

[00:38:16] their

[00:38:35] my

[00:38:35] physios

[00:38:35] my

[00:38:36] nurses

[00:38:36] I

[00:38:36] was

[00:38:37] like

[00:38:37] I

[00:38:37] will

[00:38:37] be

[00:38:37] the

[00:38:37] best

[00:38:37] patient

[00:38:38] I

[00:38:38] will

[00:38:38] make

[00:38:38] your

[00:38:38] day

[00:38:38] the

[00:38:39] best

[00:38:39] day

[00:38:39] I

[00:38:39] will

[00:38:39] be

[00:38:40] super

[00:38:40] cheeky

[00:38:40] I

[00:39:04] it

[00:39:05] it

[00:39:05] amazing

[00:39:08] you

[00:39:11] probably

[00:39:11] want to

[00:39:11] introduce

[00:39:12] yourself

[00:39:12] as well

[00:39:12] to the

[00:39:13] audience

[00:39:13] and

[00:39:14] then

[00:39:14] we

[00:39:14] can

[00:39:14] talk

[00:39:15] maybe

[00:39:15] I

[00:39:15] think

[00:39:15] resilience

[00:39:16] is

[00:39:16] a

[00:39:16] great

[00:39:16] segue

[00:39:17] into

[00:39:17] what

[00:39:18] you

[00:39:18] do

[00:39:18] right

[00:39:18] yes

[00:39:19] for sure

[00:39:20] that's

[00:39:21] a good

[00:39:21] part

[00:39:21] of

[00:39:21] the

[00:39:21] Venn

[00:39:22] diagram

[00:39:22] so

[00:39:23] yeah

[00:39:23] I'm

[00:39:23] Rose

[00:39:24] and

[00:39:24] I

[00:39:25] you

[00:39:26] call

[00:39:26] me

[00:39:26] a

[00:39:26] specialist

[00:39:26] I

[00:39:26] hate

[00:39:27] that

[00:39:27] I

[00:39:28] a

[00:39:29] suicide

[00:39:29] prevention

[00:39:29] educator

[00:39:30] let's

[00:39:31] say

[00:39:31] that

[00:39:31] maybe

[00:39:31] have

[00:39:32] been

[00:39:32] for

[00:39:32] 10

[00:39:32] years

[00:39:33] but

[00:39:34] I

[00:39:34] also

[00:39:34] been

[00:39:34] a

[00:39:34] counselor

[00:39:36] and

[00:39:37] I

[00:39:38] was

[00:39:38] a

[00:39:38] Samaritan

[00:39:39] in

[00:39:39] my

[00:39:39] early

[00:39:39] 20s

[00:39:40] but

[00:39:40] you

[00:39:40] know

[00:39:40] I

[00:39:40] I've

[00:39:41] been

[00:39:41] through

[00:39:42] my

[00:39:42] own

[00:39:42] stuff

[00:39:43] you

[00:39:43] know

[00:39:43] I've

[00:39:43] lost

[00:39:43] people

[00:39:43] I

[00:39:44] considered

[00:39:44] suicide

[00:39:45] myself

[00:39:45] but

[00:39:45] yeah

[00:39:46] what

[00:39:46] I

[00:39:47] love

[00:39:47] doing

[00:39:48] is

[00:39:49] well

[00:39:50] it's

[00:39:50] my

[00:39:50] day

[00:39:50] job

[00:39:50] I

[00:39:50] go

[00:39:51] into

[00:39:52] anywhere

[00:39:52] from

[00:39:53] like

[00:39:53] ones

[00:39:53] of prison

[00:39:54] to

[00:39:54] the

[00:39:55] leaders

[00:39:55] at

[00:39:55] TikTok

[00:39:56] and

[00:39:56] I

[00:39:56] train

[00:39:56] people

[00:39:57] how

[00:39:57] to

[00:39:57] talk

[00:39:57] about

[00:39:57] suicide

[00:39:58] and

[00:39:59] it's

[00:39:59] really

[00:39:59] it's

[00:40:00] all

[00:40:04] what

[00:40:04] you

[00:40:04] do

[00:40:04] and

[00:40:05] I

[00:40:05] go

[00:40:05] into

[00:40:07] somewhere

[00:40:07] where

[00:40:08] people

[00:40:08] are

[00:40:08] terrified

[00:40:08] of

[00:40:08] this

[00:40:09] subject

[00:40:09] can't

[00:40:09] say

[00:40:09] the

[00:40:09] word

[00:40:11] maybe

[00:40:11] they've

[00:40:12] got

[00:40:12] their

[00:40:12] own

[00:40:12] personal

[00:40:12] experiences

[00:40:13] around

[00:40:13] it

[00:40:13] and

[00:40:13] when

[00:40:13] I

[00:40:13] leave

[00:40:14] they

[00:40:14] think

[00:40:14] I

[00:40:15] can

[00:40:15] make

[00:40:35] a

[00:40:36] black

[00:40:37] well

[00:40:37] our

[00:40:38] first

[00:40:38] date

[00:40:40] how

[00:40:41] did

[00:40:41] we

[00:40:41] meet

[00:40:41] we

[00:40:42] got

[00:40:42] introduced

[00:40:44] so

[00:40:45] I

[00:40:45] just

[00:40:45] left

[00:40:45] my

[00:40:45] second

[00:40:45] business

[00:40:46] in

[00:40:46] two

[00:40:47] years

[00:40:47] and

[00:40:47] did

[00:40:48] that

[00:40:48] trip

[00:40:48] around

[00:40:48] Ireland

[00:40:49] came

[00:40:49] back

[00:40:49] and

[00:40:49] I

[00:41:06] the

[00:41:07] batten

[00:41:07] of

[00:41:07] hope

[00:41:07] which

[00:41:07] was

[00:41:08] the

[00:41:08] biggest

[00:41:08] ever

[00:41:09] suicide

[00:41:09] prevention

[00:41:09] initiative

[00:41:10] held

[00:41:10] in

[00:41:10] the

[00:41:10] UK

[00:41:11] last

[00:41:11] year

[00:41:11] 12

[00:41:12] cities

[00:41:12] and

[00:41:12] 12

[00:41:12] days

[00:41:13] carrying

[00:41:13] the

[00:41:13] batten

[00:41:13] around

[00:41:14] and

[00:41:27] that's

[00:41:28] what

[00:41:28] you're

[00:41:35] it

[00:41:35] was a

[00:41:36] voluntary

[00:41:36] role

[00:41:36] of

[00:41:36] a

[00:41:36] lifetime

[00:41:37] and

[00:41:37] Mark

[00:41:37] got

[00:41:37] involved

[00:41:38] we had

[00:41:38] a team

[00:41:38] of about

[00:41:38] six

[00:41:39] of us

[00:41:39] that

[00:41:39] just

[00:41:39] lived

[00:41:40] and

[00:41:40] breathed

[00:41:40] it

[00:41:40] and

[00:41:40] on

[00:41:40] the

[00:41:41] day

[00:41:41] the

[00:41:41] batten

[00:41:41] came

[00:41:42] to

[00:41:42] Brighton

[00:41:43] it was

[00:41:44] phenomenal

[00:41:44] so

[00:41:44] that

[00:41:44] batten

[00:41:45] was held

[00:41:45] by 90

[00:41:46] people

[00:41:46] in

[00:41:47] 100

[00:41:49] over

[00:41:49] the

[00:41:50] whole

[00:41:50] 12

[00:41:50] day

[00:41:50] tour

[00:41:50] ended

[00:41:51] up being

[00:41:52] passed

[00:41:52] over

[00:41:52] at

[00:41:52] Downing

[00:41:53] Street

[00:41:53] on

[00:41:53] the

[00:41:54] 12th

[00:41:54] day

[00:41:55] but

[00:41:55] everyone

[00:41:56] who

[00:41:56] held

[00:41:56] that

[00:41:56] batten

[00:41:56] it

[00:41:57] was

[00:41:57] in

[00:41:57] memory

[00:41:58] of

[00:41:58] someone

[00:41:58] they'd

[00:41:58] lost

[00:41:58] or

[00:41:59] because

[00:41:59] of

[00:41:59] their

[00:41:59] own

[00:42:00] story

[00:42:00] of

[00:42:00] survival

[00:42:00] and

[00:42:01] so

[00:42:01] literally

[00:42:02] the

[00:42:02] weight

[00:42:02] of

[00:42:02] it

[00:42:03] was

[00:42:03] something

[00:42:03] wasn't it

[00:42:04] super heavy

[00:42:05] and engraved

[00:42:05] beautifully

[00:42:06] but the

[00:42:07] stories

[00:42:08] it carried

[00:42:09] by the

[00:42:09] time

[00:42:09] it

[00:42:09] came

[00:42:09] to

[00:42:10] us

[00:42:10] we

[00:42:10] were

[00:42:10] day

[00:42:10] 11

[00:42:10] of

[00:42:11] 12

[00:42:11] it

[00:42:11] started

[00:42:11] in

[00:42:12] Glasgow

[00:42:12] 12

[00:42:12] consecutive

[00:42:13] days

[00:42:13] it

[00:42:13] was

[00:42:13] just

[00:42:14] a

[00:42:14] hell

[00:42:14] of

[00:42:15] initiative

[00:42:16] and

[00:42:16] we

[00:42:16] met

[00:42:16] and

[00:42:16] that

[00:42:16] we

[00:42:39] bigger

[00:42:39] than

[00:42:39] Rose

[00:42:41] was

[00:42:42] the

[00:42:42] driver

[00:42:42] of

[00:42:42] that

[00:42:42] and

[00:42:43] we

[00:42:43] were

[00:42:43] there

[00:42:43] to

[00:42:43] support

[00:42:44] her

[00:42:44] and

[00:42:44] energise

[00:42:45] her

[00:42:45] but it

[00:42:46] just

[00:42:46] opened

[00:42:47] my eyes

[00:42:47] to

[00:42:48] the work

[00:42:48] that

[00:42:48] Rose

[00:42:48] was

[00:42:48] doing

[00:42:49] and

[00:42:49] how

[00:42:49] even

[00:42:50] more

[00:42:50] grateful

[00:42:51] and

[00:42:51] fortunate

[00:42:51] I

[00:42:52] am

[00:42:52] that

[00:42:52] I

[00:42:53] didn't

[00:42:53] go

[00:42:53] down

[00:42:54] that

[00:42:54] darker

[00:42:54] path

[00:42:55] and

[00:42:55] wanting

[00:42:56] to

[00:42:56] explore

[00:42:56] why

[00:42:57] and

[00:42:57] what

[00:42:57] makes

[00:42:57] me

[00:42:58] an

[00:42:58] outlier

[00:42:58] and

[00:42:58] how

[00:42:59] can

[00:42:59] I

[00:42:59] look

[00:42:59] back

[00:43:00] so

[00:43:00] all

[00:43:00] of

[00:43:00] a

[00:43:01] sudden

[00:43:01] it

[00:43:02] was

[00:43:02] a

[00:43:02] gift

[00:43:09] in

[00:43:09] helping

[00:43:09] people

[00:43:11] at

[00:43:12] a

[00:43:12] point

[00:43:12] of

[00:43:12] trauma

[00:43:13] or

[00:43:13] whatever

[00:43:13] go

[00:43:14] down

[00:43:14] there

[00:43:14] or

[00:43:14] what

[00:43:15] we

[00:43:15] can

[00:43:15] learn

[00:43:15] from

[00:43:15] my

[00:43:16] story

[00:43:16] about

[00:43:16] what

[00:43:16] we

[00:43:16] can

[00:43:16] do

[00:43:17] for

[00:43:17] each

[00:43:17] other

[00:43:18] so

[00:43:18] if

[00:43:18] Rose

[00:43:18] is

[00:43:19] at

[00:43:19] one

[00:43:20] end

[00:43:20] of

[00:43:20] the

[00:43:20] spectrum

[00:43:21] of

[00:43:21] educating

[00:43:24] fighting

[00:43:25] the fire

[00:43:25] excuse

[00:43:26] the pun

[00:43:26] I

[00:43:27] could

[00:43:27] maybe

[00:43:27] be

[00:43:27] a

[00:43:27] bit

[00:43:29] more

[00:43:31] well

[00:43:31] at

[00:43:31] some

[00:43:32] point

[00:43:32] anybody

[00:43:33] anything

[00:43:33] can

[00:43:34] happen

[00:43:34] to

[00:43:34] you

[00:43:34] that

[00:43:35] can

[00:43:35] change

[00:43:35] your

[00:43:35] life

[00:43:36] that

[00:43:36] can

[00:43:36] just

[00:43:36] send

[00:43:36] you

[00:43:36] down

[00:43:37] the

[00:43:37] darker

[00:43:37] path

[00:43:37] you

[00:43:37] can

[00:43:38] get

[00:43:38] back

[00:43:38] from

[00:43:38] how

[00:43:39] can

[00:43:39] I

[00:43:39] stop

[00:43:39] people

[00:43:40] going

[00:43:40] down

[00:43:40] that

[00:43:40] dark

[00:43:41] path

[00:43:41] and

[00:43:41] I

[00:43:41] didn't

[00:43:42] go

[00:43:42] down

[00:43:42] it

[00:43:42] whereas

[00:43:43] I

[00:44:07] Ian

[00:44:07] joined

[00:44:07] us

[00:44:07] and

[00:44:08] we

[00:44:08] used

[00:44:08] to

[00:44:08] go

[00:44:08] to

[00:44:08] different

[00:44:09] events

[00:44:09] and

[00:44:09] stuff

[00:44:10] all

[00:44:10] of

[00:44:10] a

[00:44:11] sudden

[00:44:11] people

[00:44:11] were

[00:44:11] opening

[00:44:11] up

[00:44:11] to

[00:44:12] me

[00:44:12] like

[00:44:12] they'd

[00:44:12] never

[00:44:12] done

[00:44:12] before

[00:44:14] and

[00:44:15] it

[00:44:15] was

[00:44:15] a

[00:44:16] privilege

[00:44:16] to be

[00:44:16] able

[00:44:16] to

[00:44:16] do

[00:44:17] that

[00:44:17] and

[00:44:17] you

[00:44:18] know

[00:44:18] what

[00:44:18] it

[00:44:18] is

[00:44:18] Mark

[00:44:19] you've

[00:44:19] often

[00:44:19] said

[00:44:19] you say

[00:44:20] I wear

[00:44:21] my

[00:44:21] trauma

[00:44:21] on

[00:44:21] the

[00:44:21] outside

[00:44:22] people

[00:44:23] look

[00:44:23] at

[00:44:23] you

[00:44:23] we

[00:44:23] know

[00:44:23] you've

[00:44:24] been

[00:44:24] through

[00:44:24] something

[00:44:26] and

[00:44:28] actually

[00:44:28] and

[00:44:29] you

[00:44:29] and

[00:44:29] sorry

[00:44:30] I'm

[00:44:30] not

[00:44:31] putting

[00:44:31] words

[00:44:31] in

[00:44:31] your

[00:44:31] mouth

[00:44:31] these

[00:44:32] are

[00:44:32] things

[00:44:32] you've

[00:44:32] said

[00:44:32] to

[00:44:32] me

[00:44:32] that

[00:44:33] it's

[00:44:33] like

[00:44:33] we're

[00:44:34] worried

[00:44:34] about

[00:44:35] you've

[00:44:35] always

[00:44:35] been

[00:44:35] more

[00:44:36] concerned

[00:44:36] about

[00:44:36] the

[00:44:36] person

[00:44:36] who

[00:44:37] hides

[00:44:37] because

[00:44:38] it's

[00:44:38] so

[00:44:38] easy

[00:44:39] to

[00:44:39] hide

[00:44:40] our

[00:44:40] pain

[00:44:40] and

[00:44:41] there

[00:44:42] are

[00:44:42] so

[00:44:42] many

[00:44:42] people

[00:44:43] living

[00:44:43] in

[00:44:44] extreme

[00:44:44] pain

[00:44:44] and

[00:44:45] you

[00:44:45] know

[00:44:46] it's

[00:44:47] just

[00:44:47] very

[00:44:47] interesting

[00:44:47] to

[00:44:47] me

[00:44:48] when

[00:44:48] you

[00:44:48] talk

[00:44:48] about

[00:44:48] that

[00:44:48] because

[00:44:50] it's

[00:44:50] about

[00:44:50] recognising

[00:44:51] the

[00:44:51] signs

[00:44:51] isn't

[00:44:51] it

[00:44:51] those

[00:44:52] really

[00:44:52] subtle

[00:44:52] changes

[00:44:53] in

[00:44:53] people

[00:44:53] and

[00:44:53] actually

[00:44:54] starting

[00:44:54] that

[00:44:54] conversation

[00:44:55] and

[00:44:55] being

[00:44:55] proactive

[00:44:57] and

[00:44:57] you've

[00:44:58] often

[00:44:58] had

[00:44:58] people

[00:44:58] just

[00:44:58] come

[00:44:58] and

[00:44:58] talk

[00:44:59] to

[00:44:59] you

[00:44:59] because

[00:44:59] they

[00:44:59] see

[00:45:00] you

[00:45:00] it's

[00:45:01] just

[00:45:01] interesting

[00:45:01] how

[00:45:02] these

[00:45:02] conversations

[00:45:03] start

[00:45:03] the hardest

[00:45:04] thing to do

[00:45:05] if you're

[00:45:05] struggling

[00:45:05] is

[00:45:06] to

[00:45:06] take

[00:45:07] that

[00:45:07] first step

[00:45:08] and ask

[00:45:08] for help

[00:45:08] or to

[00:45:08] say

[00:45:09] something's

[00:45:09] going on

[00:45:10] and

[00:45:11] when it

[00:45:11] comes to

[00:45:11] my

[00:45:12] mental

[00:45:12] health

[00:45:12] the

[00:45:12] greatest

[00:45:13] privilege

[00:45:13] is

[00:45:13] that

[00:45:13] I

[00:45:14] wear

[00:45:14] my

[00:45:14] trauma

[00:45:14] on

[00:45:14] the

[00:45:14] outside

[00:45:21] this

[00:45:22] is

[00:45:22] something

[00:45:22] that

[00:45:22] we

[00:45:22] learn

[00:45:23] from

[00:45:23] our

[00:45:23] good

[00:45:24] friend

[00:45:24] Lauren

[00:45:24] it's

[00:45:24] not

[00:45:24] just

[00:45:25] reaching

[00:45:26] out

[00:45:26] to

[00:45:27] make

[00:45:27] sure

[00:45:27] someone

[00:45:27] is

[00:45:27] okay

[00:45:28] but

[00:45:28] reaching

[00:45:28] in

[00:45:28] to

[00:45:29] make

[00:45:29] sure

[00:45:29] someone

[00:45:29] is

[00:45:29] okay

[00:45:30] so

[00:45:30] it's

[00:45:30] that

[00:45:30] follow

[00:45:31] up

[00:45:31] question

[00:45:32] right

[00:45:32] to

[00:45:32] make

[00:45:32] sure

[00:45:33] so

[00:45:33] people

[00:45:33] come

[00:45:33] to

[00:45:34] you

[00:45:34] I'm

[00:45:34] alright

[00:45:34] but

[00:45:35] they'd

[00:45:35] always

[00:45:36] be

[00:45:36] like

[00:45:36] surely

[00:45:37] you

[00:45:37] can't

[00:45:38] be

[00:45:38] you

[00:45:38] must

[00:45:38] be

[00:45:38] no

[00:45:39] no

[00:45:39] no

[00:45:39] trust

[00:45:40] where

[00:45:40] I

[00:45:40] am

[00:45:40] but

[00:45:40] they're

[00:45:41] always

[00:45:41] asking

[00:45:41] those

[00:45:51] I

[00:45:51] say

[00:45:53] it's

[00:45:53] important

[00:45:54] to

[00:45:54] reach

[00:45:54] in

[00:45:57] what

[00:45:57] should

[00:45:58] we

[00:45:58] I

[00:45:58] mean

[00:45:58] we

[00:45:58] discussed

[00:45:59] it

[00:45:59] on

[00:45:59] the

[00:45:59] podcast

[00:46:00] right

[00:46:00] but

[00:46:00] what

[00:46:01] should

[00:46:01] we

[00:46:01] say

[00:46:01] right

[00:46:02] because

[00:46:02] men

[00:46:02] we

[00:46:03] go

[00:46:03] to

[00:46:03] the

[00:46:03] pub

[00:46:04] right

[00:46:04] and

[00:46:04] go

[00:46:04] like

[00:46:04] oh

[00:46:04] how are you

[00:46:05] doing

[00:46:05] mate

[00:46:05] oh

[00:46:05] yeah

[00:46:06] I'm

[00:46:06] fine

[00:46:06] you

[00:46:06] know

[00:46:07] have

[00:46:07] four

[00:46:07] or

[00:46:07] five

[00:46:08] pints

[00:46:08] you

[00:46:25] how do

[00:46:26] you

[00:46:26] really

[00:46:26] feel

[00:46:27] what's

[00:46:27] going

[00:46:27] on

[00:46:27] I

[00:46:28] mean

[00:46:28] what

[00:46:29] what's

[00:46:30] known

[00:46:30] to be

[00:46:30] you

[00:46:31] know

[00:46:31] a good

[00:46:32] way

[00:46:32] in

[00:46:32] is

[00:46:32] just

[00:46:33] to

[00:46:33] state

[00:46:33] fact

[00:46:33] I

[00:46:34] think

[00:46:34] that's

[00:46:34] the

[00:46:34] problem

[00:46:34] we

[00:46:34] think

[00:46:34] we

[00:46:35] need

[00:46:35] to

[00:46:35] sort

[00:46:35] of

[00:46:35] analyse

[00:46:35] or be

[00:46:36] super

[00:46:36] clever

[00:46:36] or be

[00:46:37] some

[00:46:37] psychologist

[00:46:37] or

[00:46:38] analyst

[00:46:39] no you

[00:46:39] don't

[00:46:39] if

[00:46:40] you

[00:46:40] see

[00:46:40] a

[00:46:40] mate

[00:46:40] acting

[00:46:41] a

[00:46:41] little

[00:46:41] bit

[00:46:41] differently

[00:46:41] or

[00:46:41] they

[00:46:42] stop

[00:46:42] responding

[00:46:42] to

[00:46:43] your

[00:46:43] whatsapps

[00:46:44] or

[00:46:44] they

[00:46:44] drinking

[00:46:44] more

[00:46:44] than

[00:46:44] usual

[00:46:45] start

[00:46:53] saying

[00:46:53] fact

[00:46:53] so

[00:46:54] it

[00:46:54] means

[00:46:54] that

[00:46:54] there's

[00:46:55] not

[00:46:56] that

[00:46:56] you're

[00:46:56] trying

[00:46:56] to

[00:46:56] catch

[00:46:56] anyone

[00:46:57] out

[00:46:57] no

[00:46:57] of

[00:46:57] course

[00:46:57] not

[00:46:58] ever

[00:46:58] but

[00:46:58] it

[00:46:58] just

[00:46:59] means

[00:46:59] that

[00:46:59] there's

[00:47:00] nowhere

[00:47:00] for

[00:47:00] them

[00:47:00] to

[00:47:00] go

[00:47:01] with

[00:47:01] it

[00:47:01] it

[00:47:01] sounds

[00:47:02] again

[00:47:02] like

[00:47:02] you're

[00:47:02] saying

[00:47:03] you're

[00:47:03] saying

[00:47:03] it

[00:47:04] with

[00:47:04] care

[00:47:04] right

[00:47:04] you're

[00:47:05] saying

[00:47:05] I've

[00:47:05] seen

[00:47:05] you

[00:47:06] behave

[00:47:07] in

[00:47:07] this

[00:47:07] way

[00:47:07] and

[00:47:08] I'm

[00:47:08] worried

[00:47:09] about

[00:47:09] you

[00:47:10] and

[00:47:10] if

[00:47:11] you're

[00:47:11] feeling

[00:47:12] confident

[00:47:12] what

[00:47:12] we

[00:47:12] want

[00:47:13] to

[00:47:13] say

[00:47:13] next

[00:47:13] is

[00:47:23] this

[00:47:24] is

[00:47:24] why

[00:47:24] I

[00:47:25] teach

[00:47:25] it

[00:47:25] it

[00:47:25] takes

[00:47:25] time

[00:47:26] to

[00:47:26] practice

[00:47:26] it

[00:47:26] it

[00:47:29] it

[00:47:29] is

[00:47:30] not

[00:47:30] something

[00:47:30] to

[00:47:31] be

[00:47:31] afraid

[00:47:31] of

[00:47:34] the

[00:47:34] only

[00:47:35] wrong

[00:47:35] thing

[00:47:35] to

[00:47:36] say

[00:47:36] I'm

[00:47:37] going to

[00:47:37] say

[00:47:38] the

[00:47:38] wrong

[00:47:38] thing

[00:47:38] make

[00:47:38] it

[00:47:39] worse

[00:47:40] the

[00:47:40] only

[00:47:40] wrong

[00:47:41] thing

[00:47:41] to

[00:47:41] say

[00:47:41] nothing

[00:47:42] at all

[00:47:42] if

[00:47:43] you're

[00:47:43] worried

[00:47:43] about

[00:47:43] a

[00:47:43] mate

[00:47:44] because

[00:47:44] God

[00:47:44] forbid

[00:47:44] if

[00:47:44] something

[00:47:45] happened

[00:47:45] and

[00:47:45] you

[00:47:45] had

[00:47:46] that

[00:47:46] night

[00:47:46] in

[00:47:53] how