Man vs. Fat Football

[00:00:02] Welcome to the Man Up Man Down podcast presented by Volker Ballueder and David Pawsey.

[00:00:12] We discuss the pressures and challenges faced by men approaching middle age that we're often

[00:00:16] too embarrassed to speak about with our friends.

[00:00:20] You can find us online at www.manupdown.com.

[00:00:26] Enjoy the show and don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review.

[00:00:34] Hello everyone, welcome to the latest episode of Man Up Man Down.

[00:00:40] This is one that I have been looking forward to for a long time.

[00:00:44] Obviously regular listeners will hear me talk about Fat Football which isn't the official

[00:00:48] name of it.

[00:00:49] It's Man V Fat Football and I'm delighted to have the head of Man V Fat Football, Richard

[00:00:55] Crick.

[00:00:56] Well thanks very much for joining us Richard.

[00:00:58] Man V Fat is celebrating 10 years of existence at the moment.

[00:01:03] It's something that I've enjoyed for quite a while.

[00:01:09] Unfortunately I'm injured at the moment but that's football.

[00:01:14] Like growing up in Colchester playing football my mum said we had a season ticket at A&E.

[00:01:19] So I'm certainly not a stranger to footballing injuries.

[00:01:24] When you get to 46 they take a bit longer to get over.

[00:01:27] Anyway, we're not here to talk about my injury.

[00:01:30] As I say we're here to talk to Richard about 10 years of Man V Fat, what Man V Fat is, how

[00:01:38] it does change lives and also to hear how Richard got involved with it.

[00:01:43] So yeah thanks very much for joining us Richard.

[00:01:45] Pleased to be here Jens, pleased to be here.

[00:01:47] Yeah, welcome from my end as well.

[00:01:49] I'm probably taking a back seat today because I'm not the biggest football fan.

[00:01:54] I can talk about the Fet bit probably.

[00:01:57] No me and Volker we went to see Arsenal play Brighton together didn't we?

[00:02:02] New Year's Eve.

[00:02:03] We did actually, yeah I know yeah.

[00:02:05] Not this last New Year's Eve but the one before.

[00:02:08] I've not taken him to a Colchester United match yet.

[00:02:11] You want to maybe prep him a little bit for that or I'd probably recommend an away

[00:02:16] day with Colchester United as an even more enjoyable experience.

[00:02:20] Well I've actually just booked my tickets for the Crawley game.

[00:02:25] Have you?

[00:02:26] I may well see you there.

[00:02:27] Alright, okay.

[00:02:28] But anyway, let's try not to get too bogged down in Colchester United.

[00:02:35] Sword starts right?

[00:02:37] Sword starts.

[00:02:38] No disrespect Richard.

[00:02:41] I mean we've communicated on email and LinkedIn but this is the first time we've sort of

[00:02:45] spoken face to face so to speak.

[00:02:48] You don't look like a particularly large guy yourself so how did you get involved

[00:02:53] in a man V Fat football?

[00:02:55] Yeah so I mean I've always been a big advocate of sport for good.

[00:03:00] My first job was for Preston North End basically working on a scheme called Playing for Success

[00:03:06] which was all about getting young people who weren't maybe engaging with school in

[00:03:11] the traditional format to try and see if football could engage them in numeracy, literacy,

[00:03:17] ICT.

[00:03:18] We used to have bus loads of kids coming from across the Preston area who would

[00:03:22] turn up and get sort of these tours around deepdale where back in the day you'd have

[00:03:28] a camera stuck on the top of an old school digital camera stuck on the top and would

[00:03:32] be walking around the stadium.

[00:03:33] They'd be doing bits and pieces of videos, they'd be then downloading them in the classroom

[00:03:38] not even realising that actually they were using IT skills realising that you

[00:03:42] know we were the reason we were playing battleships at 8 o'clock at night in a

[00:03:47] cold dark stadium with torches was because actually they were learning about different

[00:03:53] coordinates so yeah using football as a tool to engage and for good has always been a passion

[00:03:59] of mine.

[00:04:00] My first sort of professional job after university and working for PNE was in the NHS working

[00:04:06] on children's weight management services across the county of Suffolk and again thinking

[00:04:11] about how sport could engage and physical activity could engage people in a battle

[00:04:16] against obesity was always a big thing for me so I was actually one of the sort of almost

[00:04:21] like I suppose a consultant initially for man be fat when it was set up.

[00:04:26] The gentleman who set up the man be fat brand ten years ago a guy called Andrew Shanahan

[00:04:30] was a food critic by background he was going out getting paid to go and eat all these

[00:04:35] fantastic meals around the UK and probably not as active as he'd have liked to

[00:04:41] have been.

[00:04:42] He went along to a sort of a traditional Weight Watchers Slimming World style session

[00:04:47] found that he was the only guy in the room and they were talking about how your weight

[00:04:51] may fluctuate at a special time of the month and that didn't really resonate with him.

[00:04:58] So he came up with the idea of an online brand and an easy and he wrote a book

[00:05:03] called Maby Fat the Weight Loss Manual but he was having a lot of sort of men's

[00:05:07] health specialists coming to him going look we need something that's in person

[00:05:11] that can engage men in a journey where they're meeting other men.

[00:05:15] The concept of man be fat football and using football for good on a weight loss

[00:05:20] journey was born and yeah I came in really from I suppose more the public

[00:05:25] health perspective okay how can we what can we and can't we do are we allowed

[00:05:29] to gamify weight loss are we allowed to use a brand like man be fat in an

[00:05:36] area where we're expecting referrals in from the NHS and again that led to some

[00:05:41] really really interesting takes I'm sure.

[00:05:43] Volker I'd love to know the German take on this because initially when we were

[00:05:47] when we were going out seeking funding from public health bodies and NHS

[00:05:51] we were very much told that we cannot use a brand as stark as man be fat

[00:05:56] whereas I'd imagine in Germany I know people can be a little bit more

[00:06:00] right on I think it's bad to say.

[00:06:03] I don't know to be honest I don't know probably yeah.

[00:06:08] It's I mean man be fat football in terms of I suppose where we've gone

[00:06:13] Germany is very much on the horizon so to speak so we've had our 10 years so

[00:06:19] far in the UK and we've got 8,200 men playing man be fat football up and down

[00:06:24] the country we work with a number of brilliant community organisations the

[00:06:29] Charis Blahms of a lot of football clubs we work with the English FA the

[00:06:32] Welsh FA but we sort of at a point now where we've got 150 leagues supporting

[00:06:37] guys across the UK but we very much got a vision that you know we know that

[00:06:42] this isn't a problem that's unique to the UK both from a men's health and

[00:06:46] engaging with it perspective and obesity perspective and actually and David

[00:06:52] it'll be interesting to hear your thoughts on this one as well because

[00:06:55] for us the well-being side whilst we're called man be fat is very much as

[00:07:01] powerful as the actual physical side really.

[00:07:04] Yeah I mean I'd say that sort of the aspect that I've been missing is

[00:07:13] I mean you know so I sort of you know as I say I played football at school

[00:07:17] I mean I think I sort of stopped in my mid 20s, mid to late 20s where

[00:07:24] I was living and working in London and I'd cycle to work and I'd find that if I

[00:07:28] got injured then I couldn't cycle you know it was costing me money so I then

[00:07:32] sort of went down like the triathlon sort of you know we're running cycling

[00:07:38] swimming triathlon route and I mean I'd sort of I'm going on a bit of a

[00:07:42] tangent here but you know I'd basically sort of thought you know

[00:07:46] that's it my football days are over my son plays football so I've got

[00:07:50] involved in the coaching and then you know one of the dads sort of mentioned

[00:07:54] that he had heard about the horse and man be fat and basically dragged a load

[00:08:00] of us down there and I guess you know so to kind of say me answer your

[00:08:05] question I think what I'd sort of forgotten that I missed about football

[00:08:11] was the camaraderie that it is a team sport and you know live with man

[00:08:16] be fat there are you know you've basically got your team your team sort

[00:08:21] of WhatsApp group then there's like the main club one yeah you know there's

[00:08:26] always like banter on there and well you know when I say banter but I remember

[00:08:32] well and and you know I took the opportunity to plug the podcast but

[00:08:37] I think it was mental health awareness week you know something was put

[00:08:41] in the main chat and then quite a few guys said I'm on antidepressants you know

[00:08:47] I've well one you know one guy's like I don't have to say it I you know during

[00:08:52] the pandemic I tried to end my life and I was just like well I've never

[00:08:57] seen such an open conversation about mental health considering I'd say I'd

[00:09:03] I'm probably exposed to that sort of thing you know I've done sort of

[00:09:06] group work and being in lots of sort of different environments where you're

[00:09:11] talking about mental health but I was like wow and again I think it's like

[00:09:15] because you know you've kind of built up this this relationship it's almost

[00:09:21] like you don't realize but then suddenly you do feel comfortable talking

[00:09:27] about this with you know with the guys that you get up close and sweaty

[00:09:33] community it's a community of like-minded guys and I think it only takes one

[00:09:38] brave or bold person to be open and honest about that which then almost starts

[00:09:45] a domino effect with others I mean I'm really fortunate in my job that I get

[00:09:50] to travel up and down the UK talking to the guys about the impact that the

[00:09:55] program is having on them and you know we set an environment in which

[00:10:00] we'd like to think is conducive for people to be able to have those conversations but

[00:10:04] ultimately it's the individual who's losing weight it's the individual who's

[00:10:07] brave enough to talk about their own story and that does undoubtedly inspire

[00:10:11] others and you know as you'll know the scoring system the way in which you

[00:10:16] win man be fat is very much a case of where losers win so you know for

[00:10:21] every two guys who lose weight in the way in prior to your game you get an

[00:10:26] additional goal on the pitch and and whilst all the guys I'm sure would be

[00:10:30] vested in their team anyway it does create an extra element of peer support

[00:10:35] because whilst you wanted everyone to do well as standard you want them to do

[00:10:39] well because you're getting points as well and as men we're sort of

[00:10:42] thrashed on this sort of data thing that we often will want to get the

[00:10:45] best result possible but actually that is sometimes a catalyst for guys having

[00:10:51] more open conversations about their diet for more open conversations about

[00:10:54] their relationship more and conversations about their mental health

[00:10:57] which you know has I can't say that we were clever enough to plan that

[00:11:02] but we would like to think that the way in which we try and celebrate the

[00:11:05] community and inspire communities that you know we would like to think that

[00:11:09] the brand almost culminates with that I suppose.

[00:11:12] So I was about to ask and actually might be good to recap for people like me

[00:11:16] that are listening what's the difference to a normal football club then?

[00:11:20] Yeah.

[00:11:20] So you do weigh in and why would you want to have David of the team?

[00:11:24] I wonder who would have a team look at them at his atlas.

[00:11:29] If you'd seen me on a Friday night Volker you'd know.

[00:11:34] We still talk about my header that hit the bar and then came up and I did a

[00:11:38] bicycle kick and only just missed but anyway you know we were not here to talk about that.

[00:11:45] What was that in your twenties you're saying?

[00:11:47] No this was before my career acting injury.

[00:11:54] I kicked a bicycle once you know.

[00:12:00] So okay what differentiates man be fat from any other type of football?

[00:12:05] So effectively to join man be fat you have to have a BMI of over 27.5 or above and you have

[00:12:12] to be aged over 18 and the average BMI take for man be fat is actually around 34 so it isn't

[00:12:20] just guys who are slightly creeping into that overweight section on BMI it is very much for

[00:12:27] the larger guy and we've got guys who not start at 100 kgs we've had guys who have lost 100 kgs.

[00:12:33] We know we're talking about really some big big fellas who start a journey and

[00:12:40] have to be very brave in going out and taking that first step and opening on it with themselves

[00:12:47] about what they want to achieve with it and once you see I mean I can quite happily share some of

[00:12:52] the before and afters that we've had and stories and things but yeah truly incredible guys.

[00:12:58] The epitome of that type of thing is our amazing losers maps so every year we hire a professional

[00:13:03] football stadium we get the 40 guys who have lost the largest percentage of their body weight

[00:13:09] at that given time across the program so I think the lowest criteria we've had is guys

[00:13:14] losing 30% of their body weight so you know you're talking about 40-50 kgs is normal to have

[00:13:20] lost in that in those type of games but yeah when we get two ex-professional managers and come in

[00:13:27] and manage the teams we get the guys a kit for the day with their weight loss as their number on

[00:13:32] the back and they get to meet some incredible people this year we've got Paul Parker and

[00:13:37] Terry Butcher who are two Italian 90s icons for England so yeah we've had he had Holloway

[00:13:43] before we've had George Alacobi we've had Peter Taylor Jim McGilton so we've been fortunate to

[00:13:48] get some incredible people involved but that's our more sort of celebration event style of things

[00:13:53] on the question of what is manby fat is it for me and what's it about so yeah you have to be

[00:13:59] aged over 18, BMI of 27.5 most of the guys sign up on their own and they're signing up

[00:14:05] effectively to join a six-a-side football squad and those squads will play each other

[00:14:11] each week in a 14-week league and effectively whoever comes out on top across both the scales

[00:14:17] and the pitch scores is the ultimate winner so for example Volker if it was your team taking on

[00:14:24] David's team this week say all 10 of your guys have lost weight and only two of you did the

[00:14:29] loss weight the game will start 5-1 to you nor Wiley you don't want to let them know that

[00:14:34] you've had a great weigh-in week you want them to think they've had a chance David's

[00:14:37] turning with one of his bicycle kicks wins 3-0 but when you log on to the ball for the next

[00:14:42] morning you find that actually you've won the game 5-4 because your guys took the weight loss

[00:14:46] seriously and David weren't as successful that week so is it an absolute weight loss

[00:14:52] across a team or is it weight general weight loss? No, it's individual.

[00:14:56] Yeah so for every two guys who lose weight you get an additional gold on the pitch they

[00:15:00] could lose five kilos that week they could lose 0.1 of a kilo that week that does often

[00:15:06] mean that when guys step on the scales and there's no difference whatsoever they will start stripping

[00:15:11] down so if you want some some some free flash viewing do you take a trip to some of our Manby Fat

[00:15:17] Clubs they are not shy in some locations I would say we have had coaches who've had to

[00:15:23] remind guys that they cannot take off their box shorts but try and get those extra grand so

[00:15:29] That is one thing I haven't seen at Horsham I've seen a lot of things at Horsham but

[00:15:34] that's not one of the things I've seen.

[00:15:36] There you go, well,

[00:15:38] might be some guys listening thinking right, that's the challenge so apologies to Simon

[00:15:45] if everyone turns out naked next week.

[00:15:48] You know they would go down by the Germany I'm sure anyway but

[00:15:54] Hello it's Volker here I hope you enjoy this episode

[00:15:58] You might not realize that I have been coaching for almost a decade through both

[00:16:03] third parties and private clients during that time I've worked with brands such as

[00:16:08] General Electric Imperial Brands DHL and Pepsi however this year I'm putting a big emphasis

[00:16:16] on growing my private coaching practice improving lives of middle-aged men in leadership positions

[00:16:22] so if you hit midlife transition point and you might be a bit stuck

[00:16:26] or looking to improve your work-life balance your career or productivity you want to build a

[00:16:32] new habit where you just want to become a better version of yourself please hit me up

[00:16:39] You can reach me on Volker at Obnatus that's Volker at obnat.us or LinkedIn whatever is easiest

[00:16:49] Thanks and now back to the episode

[00:16:55] But that's great so I couldn't even join you guys because my BMI is too low right so

[00:17:00] Correct and just so I throw that in yeah and that but that is very much deliberate because

[00:17:05] you know we have guys who when they lose a significant amount of weight and then we

[00:17:11] get new guys joining who might be a BMI of 38 you know and they will often look at some of

[00:17:17] these guys who are within a healthy BMI or just meet the healthy BMI threshold and sort of

[00:17:22] ask the question well why are you guys here and I think it's really for important for us to remember

[00:17:27] that man be fat is a community and that a lot of those guys who have made significant changes in

[00:17:31] their weight loss either act as inspirations for other men and often go on to be captains or

[00:17:38] 50% of our coaching workforce across the UK now is guys with lived experience of obesity who

[00:17:43] have gone through man be fat football had a weight loss know how to resonate and empathize

[00:17:50] with the guys on their clubs and go on to be fantastic man be fat coaches so it's really important

[00:17:56] for us to remember and celebrate that positive journey rather than go well hang on just because

[00:18:01] they don't look like me now it doesn't mean they never did so yeah but but admittedly it does make

[00:18:06] a slight difference on the pitch for some so but again that said I'm sure I'm I'm sure David

[00:18:11] will highlight that we've got fantastic footballers at every weight and size so would you again

[00:18:16] I open up the people I mean yeah that that was the thing but I guess because we as I say they

[00:18:23] were a group of us that joined at the same time we got on to the same team and I guess you know we

[00:18:29] were kind of like all right you know yeah we were being really big balls about it and then

[00:18:34] you're like wow yeah you know there's there's some like really good guys you know it's like

[00:18:40] you know they've let themselves go a bit now but obviously you know at some point

[00:18:46] but they've still got it you know it's it's it is you know quite a sight to behold in lots of

[00:18:52] different ways I think people are often surprised because I mean we try and make it as inclusive

[00:18:57] for any guy who wants to lose weight as possible and the scoring system celebrates those weight

[00:19:03] losses so it does go beyond those weekly weigh ins as well so for guys who lose 5% of their body

[00:19:09] weight they get additional goals for their team that way for guys who hit 10% 15% 20% of their body

[00:19:15] weight they get additional goals for guys who track their food and activity diaries each week

[00:19:20] they can earn additional goals for the team so instilling those healthy behaviors and celebrating

[00:19:25] those milestones sort of evens up the quality on the pitch you can still be a you know you could

[00:19:31] for example be a non-playing member we've seen a guy who had a similar injury to yours David

[00:19:36] in week three that he joined us I think and he went on to lose 30% of his body weight despite the

[00:19:42] fact that in the course of a year I think he only played six games because he was so determined to

[00:19:47] contribute to the bunch of lads who had supported him through his injury that each week he was

[00:19:53] weighing in lighter despite the fact that he couldn't do the levels of activity that they

[00:19:56] could so you know that again I think for me has always highlighted that the competitive

[00:20:01] aspect in men but also the peer support element that we try and instill. Fascinating so I'm sorry

[00:20:09] I didn't know about that but I don't know why you're playing every Friday I mean why you used to play

[00:20:13] every Friday. Which was the first I mean you mentioned sorry I've forgotten his name the

[00:20:20] chapter that started it. Andrew Shanahan yes. Sorry Andrew I mean where was the first one

[00:20:25] and how did it kind of go from you know one to as you say you know sort of being across the country

[00:20:32] and now looking to go global. Yeah so we so the first league ever that we that we did was in Fox

[00:20:38] Hollies which is in Birmingham in Solly Hole it was oversubscribed so we managed to get some

[00:20:45] funding from Solly Hole Council so the first club was sort of free or subsidised for a lot

[00:20:51] of the guys who took part we got in sort of week 10 11 of that session we managed to get

[00:20:56] the BBC One show to come down and do a recording on it obviously being a new programme with an

[00:21:03] element of human interest to it they were they were keen to cover that and after that went

[00:21:09] live on the BBC as I'm sure you can imagine the social channels just lit up in terms of when

[00:21:14] is this coming here when is this coming there please to say that Colchester just outside

[00:21:18] the stadium Colchester United were one of the first ones to pick it up as well late Norian

[00:21:24] so we worked with late Norian for a long time still have a fantastic club down down by Orient

[00:21:29] and it's just spanned from there really to look 10 years on and having 150 clubs across

[00:21:36] England Scotland Wales Northern Ireland pre-COVID we'd actually started a small

[00:21:41] franchise in Australia we got approached by two ex-pats who worked at the University of Western

[00:21:46] Australia who basically reached out and said we'd love to do man be fat football here we'd like

[00:21:52] him last as student to do a sort of a feasibility study on it would you be up for it we said we

[00:21:58] he's welcome to come over and do the research work and then as soon as he went home the University

[00:22:04] were on the line saying we need to bring this to Australia the report says so can we do it

[00:22:09] sadly COVID killed that off we got to about 15 clubs over there and and supported the guys

[00:22:14] out there who were absolutely brilliant but we're actually taking the program ourselves to the US

[00:22:20] this July so I got to spend some time out in the US scouring different football facilities partners

[00:22:26] and this July we're going to be kicking off in Broward which is just north of Miami and Tampa

[00:22:33] for our first two man be fat soccer clubs which will obviously be a very different vibe

[00:22:38] as you'll know from here David most of the guys who have played probably played football

[00:22:42] before and we have the odd rugby player we have the odd guy who joins because it's a good social and

[00:22:47] they've never played football before but 95 percent of guys will have there it will be a very South

[00:22:53] American populations and also a lot of guys who are maybe newer to the game and obviously with

[00:22:57] the World Cup 2026 on the horizon as well there's a lot of interest in soccer over there

[00:23:03] now so the facilities are coming about the games more on TV than they ever have been before so

[00:23:09] we'd like to think that we're going at a point which is going to culminate with guys wanting

[00:23:13] to get involved with the game in whatever guys that looks like I mean you've you've sort of touched

[00:23:18] on it but I mean what you know what do you think it is I don't know makes it so much more

[00:23:24] accessible I mean I mean I guess there you know there are guys that have tried other things

[00:23:30] and as you say might not have necessarily been that involved in football at a younger age

[00:23:37] what do you think it is that gets them there and keeps them coming back yeah I mean it's

[00:23:42] really interesting because you know when we speak to guys about why they signed up in the first place

[00:23:47] we hear a lot of similar things so often it's I didn't like how I looked in photographs I looked

[00:23:52] to myself in the photo and that wasn't the man I wanted to be often it's that I can't you know

[00:23:57] I've just had kids and I can't go play football with the kids in the park with my kids without

[00:24:03] being completely out of breath or they're running rings around me and it shouldn't be like that we

[00:24:08] have a lot of guys who I think miss being part of a club or having that sort of identity and purpose

[00:24:14] so we see a lot of guys like that word of mouth is is is massive for us so probably about a third

[00:24:20] of the guys who sign up you know learn about it through a friend like like yourself did I think

[00:24:26] there's that sort of realization some of the guys during COVID and obviously the the warning

[00:24:31] that came out around if you're you're larger than maybe you should be for your health that COVID could

[00:24:36] have a really big impact on that we're actually releasing a set of 10 year videos so we're talking

[00:24:43] to 10 amazing men from the manby fact community who have had their own journeys who have come from

[00:24:48] maybe very different reasons becoming so you know one of the ones that's coming out soon was a

[00:24:53] guy who who is an absolute roller coaster junkie but for the first time ever he got turned away

[00:24:58] from from going to a theme park in Florida and he was like this is you know this is too much I need

[00:25:05] to make a change you know another chap who needed surgery he had diabetes and actually you know the

[00:25:12] COVID warning was the catalyst for him going to like this is this is too much for me one that

[00:25:17] we've already released was was from a a chap called Dano who's actually gone on to be a manby

[00:25:21] fact coach but when he initially joined he was losing weight because he wanted to donate

[00:25:26] an organ to his dad for life-saving surgery you know we one of the other videos covers a gentleman

[00:25:32] from Lincoln who had to go through IVF with his partner to try and conceive and they just weren't

[00:25:38] having any any luck and a lot of that was was due to the health on on both of their parts

[00:25:44] and actually after he joined manby fact footballer lost a significant amount of weight and his

[00:25:49] partner also went on her weight loss journey they didn't need IVF anymore before they

[00:25:54] went back for the for the next set they'd actually managed to conceive so there's all of these incredible

[00:26:00] stories from the guys that you know we talk about and and we haven't even really covered mental health

[00:26:05] there you know we've we did some videos recently these are all on our manby fact youtube channel

[00:26:10] by the way with some of the chaps in Scotland they were talking very openly about mental health

[00:26:15] and the impact that that being part of a community and a club again has had for them

[00:26:20] and two out of the four of the chaps who spoke to us talked very openly about attempts they made on

[00:26:25] their own lives prior to joining because they just felt so lonely and they didn't feel like they had

[00:26:31] that purpose in life anymore so there's no doubt that by having like-minded supportive people around

[00:26:38] you it improves your life it makes your life better and it makes you want to live and you know

[00:26:43] and I think you asked initially why do people join why do people stay why do people come back

[00:26:50] you know that that is a massive part of it obviously we we talk about the gamification

[00:26:55] elements we talk about the peer support elements we talk about the fact that we want to kick

[00:26:58] football again yeah the the societal and the sort of the friendships that are made are incredible

[00:27:06] a lot of the guys you know refer to their teammates as their brothers you know and a lot of the

[00:27:11] and so many of the guys whilst we have manby fat football clubs all individual across the UK

[00:27:18] we've now got so many friendships across the clubs and across the network as well from

[00:27:21] whether that's a level aside friendlies whether that's people sharing their stories on their own

[00:27:26] personal instagrams you know it has become a really strong network and actually I think one

[00:27:31] of my favorite parts of the job is when we get to do things like the awards or the national

[00:27:35] tournament or we had our 10 years anniversary at the houses of parliament the other day which

[00:27:39] was incredible seeing those people interact with each other and talking about their own stories

[00:27:44] their own clubs their own pride in that is beautiful as well man up man down is sponsored by

[00:27:50] well-doing there's someone who has seen a counsellor for a number of years I think their approach is

[00:27:55] great they want you to find the mental health professional who is right for you you can feel

[00:27:59] to your search to highlight therapists with expertise where you need it or you can pay to

[00:28:03] use their personalized matching service the people who run well doing are experts in

[00:28:08] mental well-being and they also have loads of posts and interviews to keep your mental

[00:28:12] health in good shape take a look at well-doing.org I mean I'd say you know sort of a big thing for me

[00:28:22] and well I'll perhaps come back with a question but you know the question is was there an uptick

[00:28:29] in interest after the pandemic I mean I guess I you know it was almost like the pandemic

[00:28:36] sort of almost killed off my level of exercise where you know it was like right I've got an

[00:28:43] hour where I'm allowed out you know and it's like well I'll go out for a walk with the family

[00:28:49] you know rather than going off on my bike and also I guess there was a bit of like

[00:28:53] I don't want to be that guy that gets knocked off his bike and you know

[00:28:57] have to answer questions but also you know putting extra strain on the NHS at a time

[00:29:03] so I sort of came out of that you know I don't think anyone came out of the pandemic that well but

[00:29:10] I guess for me it was kind of like oh you know I've properly lost my mojo in a lot of ways and

[00:29:17] going to like man be fat was a result I was then started playing football on a Monday you

[00:29:23] know with a bunch of guys you know and again I'm like playing against people in their 20s

[00:29:28] you know and I'm like wow you know the weird thing is it's almost like

[00:29:33] I feel like I can retire happy because you know I'm like wow you know I'm 46 and I you know I can

[00:29:41] keep up with these guys and you know and I've still got the skills you know what we often joke

[00:29:47] that it's uh it's joining man be fat football is like a gateway drug to more football and

[00:29:52] yeah sure because you do become part of the team but that team it goes beyond I mean I believe

[00:29:58] your your teams David you were part of the iron bruises right that was who I was playing for

[00:30:04] you've been there as well and the slim sons is that right yeah the oh yeah my heart's still a

[00:30:11] slim son the yellows yeah that was sort of like where we you know the first team I played for

[00:30:16] because I mean that's the other thing basically it gets all you start off on a team

[00:30:21] and then after I think two seasons is it there's a refresh so you know you're always kind of playing

[00:30:28] with different guys to you know I guess stop it getting too cliquey and we were a bit of a clique

[00:30:33] in the slim sons I'll admit but it right is is that building that club mentality so thinking

[00:30:39] that your man be fat horseship rather than a set team or a set color because obviously all the

[00:30:46] teams that we do we distribute a color to that which the guys would then get their kit for as well

[00:30:52] yeah I have got an impressive array of different colored football shirts I even went and you know

[00:31:01] as a kid well other than obviously you know coached United being my team I went through a phase of

[00:31:07] supporting Manchester United and so when I was red so I was all right I'm gonna have to get the

[00:31:11] old you know like the lace up canton our Irish yeah sir I've gone on a bit of a ramble there but yeah

[00:31:17] out covid weren't you and the impact that that had I suppose on people's attitudes to

[00:31:24] activity and and I think actually for a lot of people it was a routine reset so I mean I

[00:31:31] I play football I play badminton I play a little bit of squash but I'd never gone running before

[00:31:38] actually it was one of the only things you could really do during the epidemic was was running in

[00:31:42] cycling and that's introduced me to that and now also don't go as much as I probably should I'll try

[00:31:48] and go once a week or once a fortnight and I think for a lot of people it was a bit of a routine

[00:31:53] reset and obviously the aspect of working from home now and people having a more sort of I would

[00:31:59] say a more adult-to-adult relationship with their employers rather than maybe a historically

[00:32:04] adult-to-child relationship where the employer sits you down tells you to sit there for eight hours

[00:32:09] and then off you go again we now have a more adult-to-adult relationship with with with most

[00:32:14] employers and therefore people can integrate some form of walking exercise cycling into their

[00:32:20] their daily routines if their jobs allow it but I think that probably we did have a huge

[00:32:26] uptick after COVID so most of our guys returned but also we saw a huge number of new users and

[00:32:34] we would always see a sort of an uptick of new members on a monthly basis anyway but obviously

[00:32:40] having that sort of 18 month delay so to speak I think it a lot of people would have seen it

[00:32:45] during that time got actually that's what I need to do when I get back a lot of people would

[00:32:49] have put a weight during the pandemic as well but we were greatly helped by the fact that

[00:32:54] actually going out and doing team sports was the most attractive thing you could do at the time

[00:33:00] you couldn't go to the cinema you couldn't go to a nightclub you couldn't go to really a restaurant

[00:33:05] as a large group but while you couldn't do those things you could still come and play

[00:33:09] manv fat football because it was outside because we could find some management around social

[00:33:14] distancing um and therefore actually being able to play recreational sport was one of the first

[00:33:20] things that came back post pandemic and therefore in that sort of three month period where everyone

[00:33:24] was desperate to get to the next day um people were taking up things like that and for a lot of

[00:33:30] people that thankfully is stuck yeah it's interesting that you say that I mean I'd sort of well

[00:33:37] went went about 15 months without drinking back in around 2017 and it was you know so I'd even

[00:33:46] though I'd sort of uh started having the occasional drink again you know it's almost like I sort of went

[00:33:52] from that would be my social life to I guess trying to find other social things to do and and sort of

[00:34:01] so I guess with you know well as I say it was it was sort of before my injury I was you know

[00:34:07] football on a Friday football on a Monday squash on a Wednesday football training with my

[00:34:12] son on Thursday and it's like oh yeah I've got you know and I've worked for myself so

[00:34:19] you know that I'm not always well both you know in a team environment so yeah you know

[00:34:26] I guess it was kind of it provided me with lots of things that I didn't realize I was looking for

[00:34:33] perhaps yeah and that so often is is the way I think that um you know often guys sign up

[00:34:41] thinking they're going to get 30 minutes football and a couple of new teammates and actually uh as I

[00:34:46] say they'd become part of an 11 aside team they'd become part of another social group they'd become

[00:34:51] you know we have with so many of the guys now go to each other's weddings they go to each other's

[00:34:56] birthdays their families are friends their wives are friends um you know they they all

[00:35:01] integrate we have guys who we have people from all different walks of life who are part

[00:35:06] of the manly fat community and we've heard of guys who have run who run like takeaway of festival

[00:35:11] food trucks and stuff and on a league night they might just pull up that food truck and you know

[00:35:17] do the food for everyone for a night as a one-off celebration and things like that the

[00:35:21] sort of things that the guys get involved with are are incredible and the program acts as a

[00:35:27] real catalyst for that really I mean listening to both of you I as I say I don't have much

[00:35:32] strats here in terms of football I don't have that experience I never played football as a child

[00:35:36] really you know never in the club um as I said you know earlier I've only ever been you know started

[00:35:42] called football games in 2016 that's mainly to do something with the kids which you know David

[00:35:48] Lydon's custom the podcast a couple times but listening to the to to both of you I'm

[00:35:53] kind of thinking why is not on or for adult football man versus fat you know like why is

[00:36:00] you know it makes so much sense right we have an obesity problem in this country anyway right

[00:36:05] so everyone should just lose lose weight there should be part of every football club or every

[00:36:11] football club should be part of your league whatever it is right yeah and and a lot of

[00:36:15] I mean a lot of football clubs have other programs as well so there are sort of shape-up

[00:36:20] programs there are community based programs and and I think it's fair to say that football

[00:36:26] clubs are an absolutely brilliant source of support for their local users I mean that that

[00:36:34] really does vary from club to club but I mean we we're fortunate to work with some fantastic

[00:36:39] community sports trusts and we are a tiny part of the work they do I mean with this um for

[00:36:45] example there's a lot of groups who support sporting memories which is effectively a charity

[00:36:50] which gets people who are suffering with dementia to come into the football club and they talk about

[00:36:56] some iconic matches in the history of that football club and often that brings the person

[00:37:01] back to the person that they that they were and it sparks some incredible conversations and

[00:37:07] some incredible moments for their families you know the youth setup that that they have

[00:37:13] in terms of being able to support a lot of young people around not just football coaching

[00:37:18] but things like mental health and social clubs and things is is massive as well I mean I've just

[00:37:24] recently started a voluntary role for an organization called Fair Game and Fair Game are all about

[00:37:30] making sure that basically the money that comes into football which is astronomical at the Premier

[00:37:35] League levels alters down throughout the football pyramid to more local clubs because it's great

[00:37:42] having your arsonals and your Manchester cities and your Liverpool's who undoubtedly have a

[00:37:47] massive impact in the community but that doesn't mean that smaller clubs like Cultures do United

[00:37:53] or Braintree Town or school clubs and the biggest club in the land well soon soon well yeah anyone

[00:38:03] hey let's listen or talk about that yeah we're done we're not a group we don't want to bring the

[00:38:07] car podcast out but no I mean and great they do they have a huge huge place in the community

[00:38:14] and actually if those football clubs are lost to either bad ownership or poor financial management

[00:38:21] the impact that that has in the community on a pro-vout but also on business you know you think about

[00:38:28] how integrated local businesses are to local football clubs in terms of supplying services

[00:38:33] in terms of uh things like catering you know they can have huge huge impacts on their local

[00:38:39] community so I think recognizing the importance of EFL football clubs and you know national league

[00:38:48] football clubs and below that in the football pyramid is is crucial to good communities you

[00:38:54] know often the football club for example with the local food bank often is the local place

[00:38:59] where people give blood often it is the local place where you know where you can go for

[00:39:04] some mental health support so football clubs are at the heart of our communities and we need to make

[00:39:10] sure that that we keep them there um and that we support them properly unfortunately we are getting

[00:39:18] near towards the end of of the podcast but um I mean you've sort of talked about obviously

[00:39:24] working with the NHS at you know and people are coming in that way um and obviously working

[00:39:30] with football clubs I mean do you work with businesses at all yeah I mean so so we can

[00:39:36] provide uh you know we we love the idea of doing man beef at football commercial leagues almost so

[00:39:43] having uh different you know workplace teams coming in and there's undoubtedly a last number

[00:39:48] of employers who would have enough men in their workforce who meet the the criterion and

[00:39:53] we've often had conversations with organisations who for example you know

[00:39:59] truckers who have got too big to drive to get in and out of the cabin uh people on cranes

[00:40:04] who no longer meet the the weight restrictions for the work that they're meant to be doing

[00:40:09] and how can we support those individuals we've spoken to some um where you know we've

[00:40:13] we've done some work with Royal Mail um with TFL with Network Rail and so we are speaking to

[00:40:19] a large number of organisations RNLI you're another charitable organisation who get a huge

[00:40:24] number of volunteers but often actually their individuals could benefit from from losing

[00:40:29] some weight to then hopefully having a safer journey out on the lifeboats um when they're

[00:40:34] going out and doing their work so I think we forget the impact that maybe excess weight can have

[00:40:40] on people and um I mean since we've started man beef at 10 years ago we've helped guys lose

[00:40:46] 640 000 pounds worth of excess weight and we've managed to help six and a half thousand men hit

[00:40:53] five percent or more loss of their body weight and five percent is what he's seen as statistically

[00:40:59] significant from um nice the National Institute for Clinical Excellence in terms of having a real

[00:41:04] impact on on men's health both physically and mentally so yeah we've hit some incredible

[00:41:09] milestones and and as I say I think um the more we can spread the word about the program

[00:41:15] and the more people feel comfortable coming along you know the bigger impact that that we can have

[00:41:20] so if anyone's sort of wondering about my uh percentage weight loss I have to say that uh

[00:41:26] my attitude was more about the goals on the pitch rather than but I mean I'm yeah I'm

[00:41:34] for well I'm sort of now at a point where I can actually physically get on the scale so I do

[00:41:40] need to uh to see what I mean the the interesting thing is because well it's sort of been such a

[00:41:47] realization that um you know you can you can play as much football as you want but it is about what

[00:41:54] you eat and I've sort of noticed that because I'm not able to get off the sofa and into the

[00:42:00] kitchen for like my sort of normal evening snacks like even though my exercise you know and I'm

[00:42:06] back sweating now um but you know it's sort of interesting that actually even though I've been

[00:42:13] quite a bit more sedentary you know the fact that I'm not being consuming those uh empty calories

[00:42:21] so I'm not but I'm not I'm not saying that this is the the best way to lose weight a man for you

[00:42:26] fat is to uh to to get a nasty injury but um anyway thanks so much for coming on obviously

[00:42:34] I'm not playing at the moment but as I say the joy that I've got from you know thinking I'm never

[00:42:41] going to play football again and then you know getting in there and and and I've said on this

[00:42:46] podcast before like you know a lot of it is that I enjoy is because it's physical and it does make

[00:42:52] you feel you know inadvertent commas like a man and um you can spend your life laying on the

[00:42:58] sofa thinking well if I lie here I won't get injured or you can get out and do stuff that you love

[00:43:04] and get injured and and have a small break on the sofa for a while so if anyone wants to uh

[00:43:10] you know get involved with man be fat how do they find out more yeah so I mean we've um we've

[00:43:16] got casetones and stories all over the web uh guys are really proud of their story so you

[00:43:21] know do check out it's just fine me and yourself saying oh you know it's the best thing ever

[00:43:26] come and join but actually you know feel free to find other people like you and stories like

[00:43:31] yourselves if you're thinking about joining uh because there's loads of different case studies

[00:43:35] but quite simply you can go to man be fat football dot org pop your postcode in on there

[00:43:41] you can find out where your nearest league is we've got over 150 leagues up and down the UK

[00:43:46] every day of the week so one thing that we always wanted to do was try and make sure

[00:43:50] that we were within half an hour of every man in the UK who could benefit from man be fat and I'm

[00:43:57] pretty proud that we're uh we're almost in that place so yeah there is a league out there for

[00:44:03] everybody so if you've got a BMI over 27.5 you're aged over 18 and you fancy getting involved in a

[00:44:08] brilliant community do check it out man that's amazing because do you know how long it takes

[00:44:13] me to get to horse from here exactly half an hour yeah where you're sitting there we go

[00:44:22] oh well thanks very much Richard it's been great pleasure thanks for listening to this week's episode

[00:44:32] feel free to reach out to folka or david via our website www.manupdown.com or podcast at

[00:44:39] manupdown.com with any feedback or to let us know what topics you'd like us to cover in the future

[00:44:44] here you again soon