From Suicidal Thoughts to Wellbeing Coach

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Man Up Man Down Podcast, presented by Volker Ballueder and David Pawsey.

[00:00:12] We discuss the pressures and challenges faced by men approaching middle age that we're

[00:00:16] often too embarrassed to speak about with our friends.

[00:00:20] You can find us online at www.manupdown.com.

[00:00:26] Enjoy the show and don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review.

[00:01:26] Absolutely.

[00:01:27] There was the most fall there for me to survive and thrive.

[00:01:34] The list of this probably goes, what is he talking about?

[00:01:37] I just did it to warn you about Volker because I know that you've got an accent so I thought

[00:01:42] I'd get you to have a ton twist.

[00:01:43] I'm joking.

[00:01:44] Yeah, so I was talking.

[00:01:46] So yeah, that's a good thing.

[00:01:49] What does it do?

[00:01:50] Give us your story because we had a pre-tall and there's a lot to uncover.

[00:01:55] There is, I mean it's like anyone.

[00:01:58] Everyone's got a story, right?

[00:02:00] There's a lot that I could mention and unpack by essentially keeping it to the theme of

[00:02:08] what you guys have created and talking as you said, David, you know, getting kind of vulnerable.

[00:02:14] I think that's...

[00:02:15] Ultimately, that's a really, really important thing for everybody to do.

[00:02:18] Not just men, women as well but they just tend to be a little bit more natural at doing that.

[00:02:22] I think that's just the natural thing.

[00:02:25] I do feel like it's really, really important to talk and be vulnerable.

[00:02:28] However, I would say with that, I also feel that it's important to do that and then take actions

[00:02:35] with it because I think it could be that it's fantastic that people can be brave and have the courage

[00:02:41] enough to speak up and to have those discussions about things that perhaps there's struggling

[00:02:49] with particularly around mental health.

[00:02:51] But I also feel that once those conversations have started and once you've been brave enough

[00:02:55] from the courage to do that, if you go back to sitting on your own and doing the same things,

[00:03:01] then nothing really changes.

[00:03:03] You stay with that, you know, you can express it but you're still very, very vulnerable with it.

[00:03:09] So I think it's...

[00:03:11] For me, it's really, really important but action and taking having some curiosity,

[00:03:17] getting around a community, having that courage as I say and starting to make some changes

[00:03:23] is equally as important.

[00:03:25] I guess for me...

[00:03:27] I'm quite an average kind of bloke.

[00:03:29] You know, I'm not someone who can sit here and tell you about massive traumas in my childhood.

[00:03:34] I've had a fairly very fortunate upbringing from a loving perspective.

[00:03:39] I love my mum and dad are still together.

[00:03:41] They are an interesting couple.

[00:03:45] They met in a band, so it's very rock and roll.

[00:03:49] My mum's originally from America.

[00:03:51] That's probably where I get my confidence from because Americans tend to have confidence

[00:03:57] in their veins.

[00:03:59] Perhaps it all means so much.

[00:04:03] But my mum's American and she met my dad in the early 70s in London.

[00:04:10] He was a drummer. She was a singer and it was quite quick, I think.

[00:04:16] That's going to say is this where you tell us that your mum and dad are from Fleetwood Mac?

[00:04:20] Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:22] No, it's only right. I'll fucking call you that bit.

[00:04:26] No, no, no, no. So again, I'm trying to condense this quickly.

[00:04:28] He basically got up right then, shotgun red in the same year.

[00:04:32] Had my oldest brother who is five years older than me, I'm 42.

[00:04:36] Then they had four boys.

[00:04:38] My dad was a drummer, a musician and he continued to do so that but then we, the financially,

[00:04:46] they were up against it. He never really was established in any band that went on and made lots from it.

[00:04:52] So it was just a session drummer what he earned.

[00:04:54] He spent, you know, and then he moved by his parents lived in Bogdner Regis on the South Coast

[00:05:00] and that's where he actually grew up as a kid.

[00:05:02] So he had an opportunity to go and take the house there from then, and they were getting older, etc.

[00:05:06] Four of us boys come along.

[00:05:08] So my upbringing was good, you know, really, really loving.

[00:05:10] We didn't have loads of money, we were going to roof over our head and we, you know,

[00:05:14] we've got presents and Christmas and stuff.

[00:05:16] I always back in I think there was always probably a little bit of because I've got brothers.

[00:05:20] There was always a little bit of kind of trying to be the attention, I think.

[00:05:24] Yeah.

[00:05:26] So sorry, where, where were you in the brother's?

[00:05:28] In the brotherhood.

[00:05:30] I'm three or four.

[00:05:32] Right.

[00:05:34] So I've got one younger and two older than me.

[00:05:36] Yeah.

[00:05:38] And the top two bottom is ten years.

[00:05:40] Right.

[00:05:42] The oldest is ten years older than the youngest.

[00:05:44] So we grew up in Bogdner.

[00:05:46] In my late teens, I had an opportunity to do some TV presenting.

[00:05:48] It was a very random thing.

[00:05:50] They came to school.

[00:05:52] I'm obviously quite upfront.

[00:05:54] Yeah, I give that a go.

[00:05:56] Did this one off show?

[00:05:58] I would love to do that.

[00:06:00] And an opportunity to go and shoot a pilot by the TV show.

[00:06:04] And they sold it.

[00:06:06] And I spent two years doing Nickelodeon, which was amazing in my late teens.

[00:06:08] And that was kind of it.

[00:06:10] I was like, right, this is what I'm going to do.

[00:06:12] So I went to London and I did that in my late teens.

[00:06:16] Really, really great.

[00:06:18] And then series finished because all the rest of the presents, it was like 14.

[00:06:20] And I was like 19.

[00:06:22] It started to look a bit weird.

[00:06:24] And then I was like, I'll go to London and do this.

[00:06:26] I was so reserved, I got a credit card and thought, right, I'll do this.

[00:06:29] And I got an agent and I spent the next couple of years really, really trying to make it work

[00:06:34] and it just didn't happen.

[00:06:36] So I'm in my early 20s and I'm like, fuck.

[00:06:38] What am I going to do now?

[00:06:40] And I spent my old 20s just bombing around in London.

[00:06:42] It was good, you know, working in so high,

[00:06:44] just as a post-production runner or saying, I remember to be in the most of it.

[00:06:48] It was out in my head.

[00:06:50] If I'm bad, to be fair.

[00:06:52] I've been with now for over 20 years.

[00:06:54] I'm in my early 20s.

[00:06:56] She's obviously, she's also from down here.

[00:06:58] Then we moved to London.

[00:07:00] Sorry, we moved, we were into London and I've been there for about 10 years

[00:07:04] and it was getting to my third.

[00:07:06] It's nice thinking, what am I doing?

[00:07:08] What comes next?

[00:07:10] And it was kind of my head.

[00:07:12] It's like, well, got this amazing woman and we'll start a family

[00:07:14] and then I'll get a job, you know, and follow the route, right?

[00:07:18] So we moved back down because London was really expensive.

[00:07:20] We moved to Brighton, which is not actually as cheap, not as cheap,

[00:07:24] just as expensive.

[00:07:26] But it was a natural thing to kind of come down from London to Brighton.

[00:07:28] And that's where things start to go a bit wrong for me.

[00:07:30] I started to work just black to job in digital marketing,

[00:07:34] which I have nothing against, by the way.

[00:07:36] It wasn't for me.

[00:07:38] I was working in it and I just didn't really know what I was doing.

[00:07:46] My wife wasn't working at the time.

[00:07:48] We just had our first kid and it was like, right, we need to move out of Brighton

[00:07:52] because it was expensive.

[00:07:54] So we moved a lot a little bit further on to work in which we could afford.

[00:07:58] Just got a mortgage and I'd been working in this job for a couple of years

[00:08:02] and it was horrendous.

[00:08:04] It was kind of like every day, you know, you get those dreads where you're like,

[00:08:08] well, that's what excuse can I make?

[00:08:10] Like to go in.

[00:08:12] And the financial I felt a lot of pressure and I just didn't have anyone to talk to

[00:08:14] and I just kept going.

[00:08:16] You know, I've got a good mask.

[00:08:18] So I was always quite alive and sold the party and I was joking and other than other.

[00:08:22] But underneath I was really struggling and I was like,

[00:08:24] what you got me struggling about mate?

[00:08:26] You've got how she got kid, got a job, like stop.

[00:08:28] And I was battering myself for failing this way.

[00:08:34] Hello, it's Fulker here.

[00:08:36] I hope you enjoyed this episode.

[00:08:38] You might not realise that I have been coaching for almost a decade through Bulls.

[00:08:43] Through Bulls, Third parties and private lives.

[00:08:46] Do that time I've worked with brands such as General Electric, Imperial Brands,

[00:08:51] DHL and Pepsi.

[00:08:54] However, this year I'm putting a big emphasis on growing my private coaching practice

[00:08:59] improving lives of middle aged men in leadership positions.

[00:09:03] So if you hit mid life transition point and you might be a bit stuck

[00:09:07] or looking to improve your work life balance, your career or productivity

[00:09:12] you want to build a new habit, you just want to become a better version of yourself.

[00:09:17] Please hit me up.

[00:09:19] You can reach me on Fulker.natus, that's Fulker.et,

[00:09:23] obnaetee.us or LinkedIn, whatever is easiest.

[00:09:29] Thanks and now back to the episode.

[00:09:35] How old were you, brothers?

[00:09:37] I was in my early 30s then.

[00:09:40] It was eight years ago and it got to a point where I didn't know what to do.

[00:09:45] I probably would be looking back at it now but what I thought was the best if I wasn't here

[00:09:55] because I'm shit to be around.

[00:09:58] I wasn't getting on, I didn't feel like I was being very good pair

[00:10:01] and I was dreading every time I got to work but I knew I couldn't quit that job

[00:10:04] because I was like, what else could I do?

[00:10:07] What didn't have a job at the side of the road?

[00:10:10] And it was cry for help and I went airy wool for a couple of days

[00:10:13] and I just drank lots and took lots of stuff.

[00:10:16] I got to my point where I was like, okay this is it

[00:10:20] and I took myself up to the top of a building and I was ready to go

[00:10:24] and I was kind of, I was crying for help

[00:10:28] and when I really, the only person that can help me is me.

[00:10:32] I can get help, not saying people can't get help but right in this moment of time

[00:10:37] no one's coming to save me.

[00:10:40] I have to say myself here and I've got too much, like you know I've got a child

[00:10:46] I've tried and thinking about my kid and trying to think about why for my brother

[00:10:49] is and everything was okay so it didn't happen obviously thank goodness

[00:10:53] but it's too common.

[00:10:55] A lot of people get to that point and they can't find that strength

[00:11:00] and they're done and we're in this state where it's a pandemic in itself

[00:11:05] and it's fucking heartbreaking.

[00:11:07] And I'm just like, so I don't want to swear too much

[00:11:10] because I'm really in this way.

[00:11:12] I'm just like that man, do you know what I mean?

[00:11:15] Like people are worse at it and dig deep.

[00:11:19] So I came out of that spell and I got some help, I went to the GP

[00:11:24] and did the whole kind of thing and my wife had just said to me

[00:11:28] because it's just got to stop like and I'm like well we can't you know

[00:11:32] and a lot of it is financial and I think I've got this quite hook up

[00:11:36] I find it difficult and I mean love people find it's just things difficult.

[00:11:40] My money for me is a weird one.

[00:11:42] I can say coming back to my child I was trying to find it

[00:11:44] and not trying to blame my parents at all but the relationship towards money

[00:11:48] was always that was what was always the rouse in our house

[00:11:52] as I was growing up was always I fucking on the edge now

[00:11:56] there was a lot of resentment about those that had money

[00:11:58] like they all seem to be our souls.

[00:12:00] It was a weird one anyway and I think that's still haunt me

[00:12:04] and that's still kind of what I carry on my shoulders

[00:12:06] and that's when I'm constantly trying to work through

[00:12:09] but yeah so like my wife is saying kind of stop

[00:12:12] and I was like, I'm just not just going to stop because don't worry

[00:12:14] you know I'm going to do it

[00:12:16] and if I want you to want to do and I don't know

[00:12:19] babe I'm midfirties, like I don't have any skills

[00:12:22] I wanted to be a TV presenter that didn't work

[00:12:24] I don't want to go back and do this stuff

[00:12:26] but just think about what your skills and qualities are

[00:12:30] and I'm like I don't know, like what do you want to do

[00:12:32] and I'd be a footballer.

[00:12:34] I mean like I'm fake, I'm like well too late for that

[00:12:38] like what am I going to do

[00:12:40] and was that realisation as well?

[00:12:42] A lot of people kind of go for this

[00:12:44] just have a job, get married, have a mortgage, retire, dead

[00:12:48] under the like I can spend the next 30 years

[00:12:52] doing this, I can't do it

[00:12:54] and so it's really kind of trying to soul search

[00:12:58] like you know I'm good at communicating

[00:13:00] and I kind of felt this really

[00:13:03] empowerment of like

[00:13:05] I don't want people to do what go through

[00:13:09] that scenario and do it

[00:13:12] I want to try and do something to help people

[00:13:14] and I got this opportunity to

[00:13:18] look at a wellbeing

[00:13:20] advisor role

[00:13:22] and I was like and it actually came off

[00:13:26] we met someone through R&TC group

[00:13:28] you know when you go to a kid

[00:13:30] and you learn not to choke or whatever

[00:13:32] drop him right

[00:13:34] and so

[00:13:36] I met, we met this person

[00:13:38] through there and she said like why didn't you look at your

[00:13:40] local authority

[00:13:42] and my defenders came straight up with that

[00:13:44] because I was like again

[00:13:46] growing up the local authority in council were wankers

[00:13:48] right

[00:13:50] in my household it was like you know

[00:13:52] scumbags, bloody council, bloody

[00:13:54] toories, etc.

[00:13:56] And so that bad taste of my mouth

[00:13:58] was there, I can't look at

[00:14:00] working for the council

[00:14:02] but I thought you know what just drop that

[00:14:04] be curious, I'll be open minded

[00:14:06] and I went along

[00:14:08] and I met

[00:14:10] the application process

[00:14:12] which was a ball like but I blacked it

[00:14:14] got on interview

[00:14:16] because I saw it and it was like you know

[00:14:18] you don't have to have too much qualifications

[00:14:20] you work in the community, you can help people

[00:14:22] their lifestyles make changes, behave

[00:14:24] you know that's really interesting

[00:14:26] learn about nutrition and stuff

[00:14:28] you know

[00:14:30] so I did, I went along

[00:14:32] and I've really got on well with the lady

[00:14:34] who kind of become

[00:14:36] a mentor to me in my life

[00:14:38] one of those prominent people

[00:14:40] you know it's now and again you get a few people

[00:14:42] that come in your life

[00:14:44] and she was

[00:14:46] one of those

[00:14:48] and we lost her this year

[00:14:50] unfortunately

[00:14:52] absolutely gutted

[00:14:54] she was very old for a very long time

[00:14:56] but yeah

[00:14:58] and I've got the job and I haven't really looked back since

[00:15:00] like it's been six years

[00:15:02] and I've been

[00:15:04] so I don't want to learn that

[00:15:06] but I've really enjoyed learning

[00:15:08] because I think the major difference is

[00:15:10] I've never done something that

[00:15:12] I've learned I'm actually interested in

[00:15:14] well I've already done it

[00:15:16] because you've got to do it

[00:15:18] project management certification

[00:15:20] like I don't want to fucking do that

[00:15:22] you've got to do it though

[00:15:24] okay you've got to get your GCSEs

[00:15:26] you've got to do that

[00:15:28] and I didn't have to do

[00:15:30] like this

[00:15:32] the learning comes up but it's like wow

[00:15:34] great looks exciting so I'm like a sponge

[00:15:36] and whenever there's something that pops up

[00:15:38] not but anyone like to be

[00:15:40] volunteering I'm like yeah I'll do it

[00:15:42] because I'm just I just want to learn

[00:15:44] more about this stuff

[00:15:46] like it's fascinating how people

[00:15:48] behave certainly around behavior around

[00:15:50] habits, formations

[00:15:52] this kind of stuff really fascinates me

[00:15:54] and so I've been working now

[00:15:56] I've worked to thousands of people

[00:15:58] and generally speaking

[00:16:00] it's kind of around

[00:16:02] lifestyles, it's around people

[00:16:04] changing their lifestyle

[00:16:06] there's normally like a topic so it's

[00:16:08] normally around perhaps people

[00:16:10] want to lose weight or they want to be

[00:16:12] more active or lever but

[00:16:14] underneath all of that

[00:16:16] underneath that top level surface stuff

[00:16:18] because generally everybody

[00:16:20] no one's I'm not going to insult

[00:16:22] anybody's intelligence

[00:16:24] everybody knows

[00:16:26] what they shouldn't do when it comes

[00:16:28] is the routes

[00:16:30] like why is it people can't stick

[00:16:32] with stuff?

[00:16:34] why people find it so hard to

[00:16:36] find some momentum or believe in themselves

[00:16:38] that they can make changes that

[00:16:40] are positive ones that are going to help them

[00:16:42] from their health both physically and mentally

[00:16:44] and so that kind of comes down

[00:16:46] underneath that belly of like kind of

[00:16:48] around behavior and all that kind of stuff

[00:16:50] really fascinates me

[00:16:52] so mindset and all those kind of things

[00:16:54] so I enjoy my role

[00:16:56] and I kind of feel like

[00:16:58] I'm right, okay what's next?

[00:17:00] I'm always someone who wants to keep

[00:17:02] progressing or I want someone who's

[00:17:04] I'm bringing to my personal development

[00:17:06] and I want to kind of

[00:17:08] okay how can I

[00:17:10] and how can I do something as well which

[00:17:12] perhaps puts all demons to bed

[00:17:14] gives me a little bit more

[00:17:16] fulfillment

[00:17:18] and how I could help

[00:17:20] people more closely

[00:17:22] because obviously my role is a lot

[00:17:24] of things that I'm sitting there

[00:17:26] and we're talking and sitting

[00:17:28] goals and things and then I might

[00:17:30] speed them again through a month

[00:17:32] or whatever

[00:17:34] how can I what can I do to really get people

[00:17:36] to experience that

[00:17:38] what we said at the top around kind of

[00:17:40] being vulnerable talk about their emotions

[00:17:42] in their behavior and then actually

[00:17:44] doing some actionable things

[00:17:46] to try and work on this

[00:17:48] and me being involved in that whole process

[00:17:50] because I don't get to see this bit

[00:17:52] they're off they go and they come back and they've done it or they haven't done it and so

[00:17:54] these are going out it was kind of

[00:17:56] so I've had a rough due

[00:17:58] before we go there I still want to

[00:18:00] go a little bit back curious

[00:18:02] on two aspects

[00:18:04] so one is you know when

[00:18:06] you actually were on top of that building

[00:18:08] and you know however much you want to talk

[00:18:10] and don't want to talk about it

[00:18:12] what made you actually

[00:18:14] if I say turn around and walk down

[00:18:16] did someone come and talk to you

[00:18:18] or did you come out of

[00:18:20] yourself to say

[00:18:22] you're not asking it so you know

[00:18:24] may you not ready to do it yet

[00:18:26] it's like oh what what

[00:18:28] is it?

[00:18:30] it's a really good question though because there wasn't anyone there

[00:18:32] and I think that was part of

[00:18:34] me not doing it

[00:18:36] because the realization was

[00:18:40] it has to be

[00:18:42] it has to come from within

[00:18:44] and the only person that could save me

[00:18:46] is me

[00:18:48] and I think

[00:18:50] I did think about

[00:18:52] I'm very fortunate

[00:18:54] I did think about my family

[00:18:56] that came up

[00:18:58] my gut

[00:19:00] and

[00:19:02] just thinking about their lives

[00:19:04] with that huge gap

[00:19:06] in it

[00:19:08] and knowing that this

[00:19:10] this isn't just about me

[00:19:12] although I am the one that has to

[00:19:14] do this

[00:19:16] and change things

[00:19:18] and I think

[00:19:20] it's just about me

[00:19:22] you know there's other people

[00:19:24] who I'm connected with in my life

[00:19:26] it love me

[00:19:28] I think it's just such an important point

[00:19:30] and that's why I was asking

[00:19:32] because you know

[00:19:34] we always say when we come onto the podcast

[00:19:36] or when we launch the podcast as well

[00:19:38] we say you know

[00:19:40] if we can

[00:19:42] tell a story

[00:19:44] or share a story

[00:19:46] and fighting for

[00:19:48] and you know

[00:19:50] that's why I was asking

[00:19:52] it's so nice to hear

[00:19:54] it's a lot about you

[00:19:56] there's so many people

[00:19:58] that would support you

[00:20:00] that do love you

[00:20:02] and they put you back

[00:20:04] into life

[00:20:06] and I've never been in this situation

[00:20:08] it's always easy

[00:20:10] easy for me to say

[00:20:12] but I think life always has more to offer

[00:20:14] that story

[00:20:16] to you

[00:20:18] telling right

[00:20:20] you're starting your life

[00:20:22] yeah it's really interesting to say that

[00:20:24] because

[00:20:26] one of the things I talked to a lot

[00:20:28] on my clients about people

[00:20:30] that I've worked and talked to about is

[00:20:32] again it sounds a bit of a cliche

[00:20:34] but I always talk to people

[00:20:36] about staying in the game

[00:20:38] and actually

[00:20:40] like I give this analogy

[00:20:42] if there's this kind of entry level

[00:20:44] of like level one

[00:20:46] right when you come into something

[00:20:48] people are really

[00:20:50] really keen to

[00:20:52] to go up the levels

[00:20:54] I get that

[00:20:56] but I think what happens

[00:20:58] is when people get to certain levels

[00:21:00] and they find it difficult

[00:21:02] is

[00:21:04] I think that the expectation

[00:21:06] is quite a lot

[00:21:08] and so they feel like

[00:21:10] otherwise they failed

[00:21:12] and at that point

[00:21:14] people are

[00:21:16] and then they go

[00:21:18] I won't

[00:21:20] this can

[00:21:22] we could talk

[00:21:24] about being life

[00:21:26] and I guess this was kind of

[00:21:28] back to your question was

[00:21:30] at that point I also

[00:21:32] feel

[00:21:34] I can leave the game

[00:21:36] or it's okay to go back down again

[00:21:38] and try to

[00:21:40] know that again

[00:21:42] from what you were saying

[00:21:44] there's loads

[00:21:46] to this

[00:21:48] there's loads to this

[00:21:50] like all you see

[00:21:52] you know, our stones again

[00:21:54] I don't like to give an analogy

[00:21:56] of life being like a game

[00:21:58] but effectively

[00:22:00] it kind of is

[00:22:02] because

[00:22:04] like and again this is

[00:22:06] life we've got an opportunity

[00:22:08] here right yeah and when you were

[00:22:10] saying at the top of the

[00:22:12] things that you were struggling to say

[00:22:14] with them

[00:22:16] surviving

[00:22:18] and striving

[00:22:20] is effectively

[00:22:22] that's what life is

[00:22:24] then you can go up and down

[00:22:26] so generally it's not always

[00:22:28] okay you survive it

[00:22:30] then you thrive

[00:22:32] no because you could

[00:22:34] you might have to survive again

[00:22:36] or you could be striving

[00:22:38] for something and then you get

[00:22:40] knocked back down again

[00:22:42] you have to survive again

[00:22:44] or you could be going from

[00:22:46] survival and suddenly you should

[00:22:48] be of thriving but so it's a moving

[00:22:50] it's a moving beast

[00:22:52] and I wanted to try to

[00:22:54] encapsulate something that could

[00:22:56] be very

[00:22:58] powerful and trying to

[00:23:00] replicate what I meant

[00:23:02] and we are going to need to

[00:23:04] accept that we

[00:23:06] at times we're going to need to

[00:23:08] survive we're going to just

[00:23:10] need to live yeah exactly

[00:23:12] and then and then and at times

[00:23:14] we can look to strive we can

[00:23:16] strive for better and at other

[00:23:18] times where we're thriving

[00:23:20] right I've got this sorted

[00:23:22] but then anything can happen

[00:23:24] to not pull that under from under

[00:23:26] your rug and then again you might

[00:23:28] be surviving again

[00:23:30] in our areas that's from people

[00:23:32] in their lives and I think

[00:23:34] again it's

[00:23:36] this again I come back to

[00:23:38] with this is like I feel

[00:23:40] that there's this huge

[00:23:42] pressure on individuals

[00:23:44] and I said to kind of mention

[00:23:46] to you about doing like

[00:23:48] you've got to do this

[00:23:50] you've got to do it

[00:23:52] and I think we lose

[00:23:54] the the reality that we're

[00:23:56] beings

[00:23:58] and I'll do all the time

[00:24:00] we're human beings not human

[00:24:02] beings and it's hard because we live

[00:24:04] in a world where

[00:24:06] it is very can we're all

[00:24:08] consuming you know we're

[00:24:10] consuming things all the time

[00:24:12] we need we need to consume

[00:24:14] because we have to do this and we have to do that

[00:24:16] and we have to keep love

[00:24:18] appearances and we need to

[00:24:20] get all these things and I'm not saying

[00:24:22] that you can't you get rid of all

[00:24:24] that stuff I mean if you were a monk

[00:24:26] right but reality is

[00:24:28] I don't want to do that you know

[00:24:30] someone someone right but you know

[00:24:32] I want to do stuff

[00:24:34] but I also want to be and I think

[00:24:36] this is again with the versus life

[00:24:38] what I've tried what I'm trying to create

[00:24:40] is an opportunity for people

[00:24:42] just to kind of be

[00:24:44] and survive and strive

[00:24:46] and thrive and have

[00:24:48] experiences of doing that

[00:24:50] with the activities and the

[00:24:52] opportunities that I'm trying to build

[00:24:54] and I'm trying to do that

[00:24:56] and I'm trying to make it

[00:24:58] kind of the best way to explain

[00:25:00] it and people often go well what exactly

[00:25:02] like so it's a mental

[00:25:04] or physical thickness

[00:25:06] and I always lean towards

[00:25:08] the like I could say we're going

[00:25:10] to do the sauna we're going to do cold water

[00:25:12] we're going to do some cardio work

[00:25:14] we're going to do some breath work

[00:25:16] we're just going to sit

[00:25:18] still and try and meditate

[00:25:20] whatever all these different things

[00:25:22] combine this kind of

[00:25:24] again as I say this kind of

[00:25:26] I suppose

[00:25:28] like pTing, like personal

[00:25:30] training so the fitness, the fitness

[00:25:32] world you know keeping us keeping your

[00:25:34] body set because of what it does for

[00:25:36] you physically but also what it does

[00:25:38] in terms of it's creating those

[00:25:40] hormones and those and door things

[00:25:42] for our brain it helps us mentally

[00:25:44] we know that now that's fat that's science

[00:25:46] right so I like that bit and I like

[00:25:48] that around what's happening here

[00:25:50] immersion and around

[00:25:52] soreners particularly the hot and cold

[00:25:54] it does so much stuff physically for you

[00:25:56] from a cardiovascular point of view

[00:25:58] it's ridiculous like it's just

[00:26:00] amazing and more of this stuff will come

[00:26:02] out and come out and come out

[00:26:04] but also it gives you

[00:26:06] and insofar that kind of fitness

[00:26:08] physical point of view it also

[00:26:10] provides and again putting this

[00:26:12] trunning into context

[00:26:14] when we talk about life coaches

[00:26:16] we're talking about people that who

[00:26:18] will help people with a perspective

[00:26:20] of things will help the people

[00:26:22] grow their confidence and their belief in themselves

[00:26:24] and so when you do this stuff

[00:26:28] you're creating this effectively anyway

[00:26:31] and what I try to do is

[00:26:33] and what I'm creating is

[00:26:35] I kind of I'm ticking both boxes

[00:26:37] with this I'm kind of sitting somewhere

[00:26:39] in the middle so it's creating

[00:26:41] a physical reaction for a person

[00:26:43] but it's also mentally helping them

[00:26:45] with changing their mindset and perspective

[00:26:49] so it's like a cocktail of fitness

[00:26:53] and that's what I've really excited about

[00:26:55] and the guys that I've engaged

[00:26:59] with over the last couple of years

[00:27:01] and the feedback that I've got

[00:27:03] made me think more and more yes

[00:27:05] you know I've got to keep doing this

[00:27:07] this is a mission here

[00:27:09] I've got to provide people an opportunity

[00:27:11] of an experience where they can tap into these things

[00:27:13] and start to see the rippling effect

[00:27:17] of what it might do for their life

[00:27:19] in terms of surviving, striving

[00:27:21] and thriving because

[00:27:23] it might not be

[00:27:25] it's not like a

[00:27:27] it's not a goal where you kind of do it

[00:27:29] and then everything sorted

[00:27:31] because nothing will ever be sorted

[00:27:33] because we're going to come up and down

[00:27:35] in life all the time

[00:27:37] but if we're doing something

[00:27:39] where we drop this in

[00:27:41] we're not going to make a big splash

[00:27:43] but I'm seeing the ripples

[00:27:45] of people particularly those

[00:27:47] who keep one of the

[00:27:49] one of my kind of

[00:27:51] values I suppose

[00:27:53] is consistency

[00:27:55] people that keep consistency

[00:27:57] with something

[00:27:59] that's really only how things change

[00:28:01] if we're being greedy on this you could do something once or twice

[00:28:05] in order for things to really change for you

[00:28:07] you've got to keep some consistency

[00:28:09] but it'll be mindful

[00:28:11] of what we mean by consistent

[00:28:13] and where your level is

[00:28:15] because again some people

[00:28:17] I've got to do it all the time

[00:28:19] I've got to do every single day

[00:28:21] no, there you don't

[00:28:23] but you do have to keep doing it

[00:28:25] but it doesn't need to be

[00:28:27] I've got to do work, I work out

[00:28:29] five times a week

[00:28:31] well Alex, there you don't

[00:28:33] but you do have to keep yourself moving

[00:28:35] a couple of times a week

[00:28:37] for some reason

[00:28:39] okay, don't beat yourself up

[00:28:41] what can you do

[00:28:43] still that you can achieve

[00:28:45] so if you have to come down to that level

[00:28:47] again to level one and just chip away

[00:28:49] at something, stay in the game

[00:28:51] make sure you

[00:28:53] have a little walk

[00:28:55] make sure you keep yourself hydrated

[00:28:57] something which is just

[00:28:59] you know

[00:29:01] there's a fundamental

[00:29:03] that's going to keep you in there

[00:29:05] you can level up

[00:29:07] and you can come back down again

[00:29:09] it's absolutely fine

[00:29:11] just stay in there

[00:29:13] does that make sense?

[00:29:15] it makes sense to me

[00:29:17] David, you're on

[00:29:19] yeah, well so some of the things

[00:29:21] that you mentioned

[00:29:23] we had our live event

[00:29:25] earlier this week

[00:29:27] and one of the things that came up

[00:29:29] was sort of expectations

[00:29:31] particularly from a social media point of view

[00:29:33] and you know

[00:29:35] about consistency

[00:29:37] like well you know

[00:29:39] that fits for you

[00:29:41] and you know

[00:29:43] and I'm a massive sort of victim

[00:29:45] of like, well you know

[00:29:47] the phrase comparison is the thief of joy

[00:29:49] but you know

[00:29:51] it's kind of like

[00:29:53] everywhere you look

[00:29:55] you know you're being told

[00:29:57] that you're not doing something right

[00:29:59] so you know

[00:30:01] or you know you've got to be

[00:30:03] well you know

[00:30:05] like the perfect father

[00:30:07] or you know you should be working 12 hours a day

[00:30:09] and you know

[00:30:11] and the thing is

[00:30:13] you're basically sort of seeing

[00:30:15] a small part of someone's life

[00:30:17] or you know the part that they put

[00:30:19] most of their energies in

[00:30:21] whereas you're like

[00:30:23] oh well I'm a father

[00:30:25] and I'm like going to the gym

[00:30:27] and you know

[00:30:29] you should be

[00:30:31] working 12 hours a day

[00:30:33] spending like

[00:30:35] quality three hours

[00:30:37] with my children every day

[00:30:39] hitting the gym

[00:30:41] you know and then sort of maybe getting

[00:30:43] well time my wife

[00:30:45] it's all consuming

[00:30:47] and I think it's a really interesting point

[00:30:49] you should say because I think there's a couple of things there

[00:30:53] but the first thing

[00:30:55] the reality of it is though

[00:30:57] you're like seeing a

[00:30:59] as a human being to compare

[00:31:01] you're going to do that

[00:31:03] like oh I don't compare

[00:31:05] yes you fucking do

[00:31:07] don't lie

[00:31:09] like you do everybody does that

[00:31:11] and I don't think you should be scared of doing

[00:31:13] to a certain degree

[00:31:15] like it's so could be

[00:31:17] like except that you are going to do that

[00:31:19] because the more the thing is

[00:31:21] the more that you

[00:31:23] suppress something

[00:31:25] you've got to rid them really

[00:31:27] really really

[00:31:29] like use your nons

[00:31:31] they'll have something that's not right

[00:31:33] no one is perfect

[00:31:35] like it's bullshit doesn't exist

[00:31:37] there isn't this like

[00:31:39] golden kind of rainbow

[00:31:41] someone

[00:31:43] can piss in rainbows

[00:31:45] and then unicorns coming out their head

[00:31:47] but

[00:31:49] some people will have more stuff

[00:31:51] together than others

[00:31:53] but if you're comparing

[00:31:55] I think it's comparing

[00:31:57] it's who you're comparing too

[00:31:59] if you're comparing to someone who looks like a user

[00:32:01] not bad

[00:32:03] then maybe don't compare yourself

[00:32:05] to a norebhead

[00:32:07] try and find someone who actually

[00:32:09] is generally looks like a nice human being

[00:32:11] they may have

[00:32:13] that's okay so lean in towards something

[00:32:15] that perhaps is a little bit more helpful

[00:32:17] to compare

[00:32:19] rather than something that looks

[00:32:21] bad

[00:32:51] I think it's

[00:32:53] a little bit more helpful

[00:32:55] to compare yourself to a norebhead

[00:32:57] and then

[00:32:59] you know

[00:33:01] it's like

[00:33:03] someone

[00:33:05] there's someone that does have

[00:33:07] their shit together

[00:33:09] and there's someone

[00:33:11] that does a much better job of looking like

[00:33:13] they've got their shit together

[00:33:15] and the thing is

[00:33:17] it's like

[00:33:19] you know

[00:33:21] he basically just sort of talks about

[00:33:23] you know even though he's

[00:33:25] probably Williams

[00:33:27] he's sort of got

[00:33:29] well comparing himself to other artists

[00:33:31] you know he's like

[00:33:33] well I'm selling out these stadiums

[00:33:35] but

[00:33:37] I want this recognition

[00:33:39] of writing a great piece of art

[00:33:41] you know I want to be known as an artist

[00:33:43] rather than like an entertainer

[00:33:45] and

[00:33:47] sort of

[00:33:49] and I'm going to think

[00:33:51] we're in this age

[00:33:53] of openness

[00:33:55] where you know we've got podcasts

[00:33:57] like this with people

[00:33:59] bare their soul

[00:34:01] and you know the more that you hear

[00:34:03] from you know

[00:34:05] like famous

[00:34:07] you know successful and

[00:34:09] adverter commas people

[00:34:11] yeah you realise

[00:34:13] that you know

[00:34:15] there's a lot of

[00:34:17] things that you know

[00:34:19] you know

[00:34:21] you know

[00:34:23] there was like the

[00:34:25] series that Chris Hemsworth did

[00:34:27] and

[00:34:29] and in the very first

[00:34:31] episode he's like

[00:34:33] you know I wake up at two in the morning

[00:34:35] thinking what if all of this goes away

[00:34:37] you know and it's like

[00:34:39] oh well if four

[00:34:41] you know

[00:34:43] there's a lot of things that

[00:34:45] you know

[00:34:47] and I think

[00:34:49] that's the interest

[00:34:51] because I really

[00:34:53] enjoyed that myself

[00:34:55] and one of the other things that resonated

[00:34:57] me a lot with that as well

[00:34:59] that was uh you know

[00:35:01] he's a good looking man

[00:35:03] like of course he is

[00:35:05] well admirable

[00:35:07] do you know what I mean

[00:35:09] but he's still just

[00:35:11] like he's still he's still having to survive

[00:35:13] life at points

[00:35:15] you might have the muscles

[00:35:17] he may have the house and I'm not saying

[00:35:19] again I've been honest

[00:35:21] I'd love to have that kind of shit

[00:35:23] be great like you know

[00:35:25] let's be honest who wouldn't

[00:35:27] you realise if it is

[00:35:29] doesn't still be worrying

[00:35:31] you know

[00:35:33] yeah but he still has his struggles

[00:35:35] his life will still

[00:35:37] will still pass

[00:35:39] and he's just like

[00:35:41] yeah again I think like you

[00:35:43] mentioned the point

[00:35:45] around again about the kind of

[00:35:47] the whole the way people

[00:35:49] communicate you know

[00:35:51] using social media as a prime example

[00:35:53] that's a very fundamental part of a lot of people's life

[00:35:55] it is for me

[00:35:57] I try to again it sounds a bit of a cliche

[00:35:59] but I try to

[00:36:01] create

[00:36:03] and give

[00:36:05] all I consume and take

[00:36:07] some

[00:36:09] and interesting though it depends what you take

[00:36:11] so you know I'll

[00:36:13] I'll try to manage my own

[00:36:15] we're all in an algorithm

[00:36:17] so I'll try and imagine my algorithm that suits me

[00:36:19] if I start seeing stuff that I don't like

[00:36:21] I get rid of it

[00:36:23] but I'm not going to

[00:36:25] you know I'm not

[00:36:27] but it's hard because there is that again

[00:36:29] and there's that balance where you're

[00:36:31] be kind of

[00:36:33] yeah look they're really really working out right now

[00:36:35] or I should doing a jumping

[00:36:37] and a adult patting and calling my guard

[00:36:39] every single day whatever it might be

[00:36:41] because that's what everybody does

[00:36:43] and you give it there so

[00:36:45] I've got a smelly old

[00:36:47] water barrel but

[00:36:49] like I said yeah

[00:36:51] well yeah but the thing is I'm

[00:36:53] like now sorry we're going off on a bit of a tangent

[00:36:55] at the time of filming

[00:36:57] you know it's very icy and frosty

[00:36:59] and I've also seen

[00:37:01] someone like a Facebook connection

[00:37:03] who's there and I'm like right

[00:37:05] yeah I need to get in but

[00:37:07] that's an interesting point

[00:37:09] this is good though David because like

[00:37:11] what's making you

[00:37:13] and I think that's good in a way

[00:37:15] so again coming back to

[00:37:17] like what my ethos is around

[00:37:19] and I speak to clients about this

[00:37:21] you know it could be an 80 year old woman

[00:37:23] or an 18 year old dad

[00:37:25] it doesn't really matter

[00:37:27] for me I'm trying to

[00:37:29] support and help people make change

[00:37:31] for someone in their life that could be a physical

[00:37:33] thing that could be a mental thing

[00:37:35] normally it's both

[00:37:37] but I kind of look at some fundamentals of change

[00:37:39] and I've got this kind of idea

[00:37:41] that I'm bouncing around

[00:37:43] and I've different ideas and different people

[00:37:45] but fundamentally I try

[00:37:47] to try and keep it to the sea words

[00:37:49] people are I hang on a second

[00:37:51] where is it going with this

[00:37:53] but I've already got it in my head

[00:37:55] like what this might look like as a talk

[00:37:57] right so like the sea what is change

[00:37:59] place to change so for me

[00:38:01] um one of the fundamental things that people need in place to change

[00:38:05] the first thing would be

[00:38:07] community so where's your community

[00:38:09] where do you hang out

[00:38:11] who are you spending your time with

[00:38:13] what do you what do you look at

[00:38:15] who do you talk to

[00:38:17] where is your own what's your environment like

[00:38:19] yeah so wherever you are

[00:38:21] it means in terms of your community

[00:38:23] that's going to be a direct relationship

[00:38:25] to the way you're going to live your life

[00:38:27] so if you if you don't have one

[00:38:29] then find one

[00:38:31] the next one thing I would say

[00:38:33] so the community is big

[00:38:35] the next thing is

[00:38:37] to have some curiosity

[00:38:39] like be curious

[00:38:41] try and not be naive

[00:38:43] try and open your mind a little bit

[00:38:45] to other people's perspective

[00:38:47] other beliefs different ideas

[00:38:49] be curious like leaning to that curiosity

[00:38:51] because unless you're curious

[00:38:53] if you're not curious

[00:38:55] then you probably

[00:38:57] are not for me

[00:38:59] I won't try that

[00:39:01] I'm not going to do that

[00:39:03] I'm not sure about that

[00:39:05] I'm not that kind of person

[00:39:07] like be curious

[00:39:09] like you know

[00:39:11] lean into that curiosity

[00:39:13] try different things

[00:39:15] look at different people

[00:39:17] have those different conversations

[00:39:19] courage

[00:39:21] massive one

[00:39:23] you know what you

[00:39:25] what was your way

[00:39:27] you're fear of

[00:39:29] the thing is if you stay away

[00:39:31] from that

[00:39:33] you're going to continue

[00:39:35] to you're arguably going to

[00:39:37] continue to struggle

[00:39:39] we just stay comfortable with the time

[00:39:41] just do what you've done

[00:39:43] don't worry about it

[00:39:45] consume what you want

[00:39:47] it can really affect us

[00:39:49] and I heard this from somewhere

[00:39:51] harder things

[00:39:53] having curiously

[00:39:55] having courage to do

[00:39:57] try something or whatever

[00:39:59] harder things

[00:40:01] easier life

[00:40:03] yeah

[00:40:05] so we've got

[00:40:07] community, we've got

[00:40:09] curiosity and courage

[00:40:11] and we talked about it a little bit already

[00:40:13] arguably

[00:40:15] if you want things to change

[00:40:17] you do have to have consistency

[00:40:19] we're talking about

[00:40:21] a game analogy I like to use all

[00:40:23] the time it's okay to be on

[00:40:25] level one

[00:40:27] you will naturally

[00:40:29] you'll go okay and you will get to level two

[00:40:31] you might even get to level three or four

[00:40:33] and when you get up here

[00:40:35] it gets really difficult

[00:40:37] and people ask this i'm leaving

[00:40:39] and they leave the game

[00:40:41] it's okay to go back down to level one again

[00:40:43] just keep some consistency

[00:40:45] in there somewhere

[00:40:47] what you just mentioned about it

[00:40:49] and maybe what your friend has done

[00:40:51] without you think about too much

[00:40:53] is a bit of accountability in that community

[00:40:55] that could be you paying for something

[00:40:57] watching something

[00:40:59] getting part of that community while people are going

[00:41:01] hey man come on

[00:41:03] have you done that yet

[00:41:05] and you know you want to

[00:41:07] but you need someone to give you that

[00:41:09] your community to help

[00:41:11] live with you to make that change

[00:41:13] yeah i mean it's the old adage

[00:41:15] and i'm with you know i'm sort of

[00:41:17] and i've been thinking about that quite a bit recently

[00:41:19] and you know i'm like well you know

[00:41:21] i one of those people is vulca

[00:41:23] and you know he pushes me

[00:41:25] to better myself

[00:41:27] you know and like well

[00:41:29] and the guys from fat football

[00:41:31] you know it's sort of well again

[00:41:33] that's you know a different community

[00:41:35] but i mean sort of one of the things

[00:41:37] again that came up at the live event

[00:41:39] was sort of

[00:41:41] and you know you've mentioned it yourself

[00:41:43] you've got to kind of take

[00:41:45] well no one's coming to rescue you

[00:41:47] there's a phrase that you use

[00:41:49] and you know and that's sort of

[00:41:51] something that you know i've sort of

[00:41:53] well yeah i was kind of

[00:41:55] like i had a moment of like

[00:41:57] i'm not very happy with my life at the moment

[00:41:59] and i was like well

[00:42:01] there's only one person that can change that

[00:42:03] so you know i sort of

[00:42:05] and i guess part of that was

[00:42:07] becoming more open

[00:42:09] to new friendships

[00:42:11] or to make

[00:42:13] curiosity

[00:42:15] I get a community around me

[00:42:17] like you say yeah

[00:42:19] no one's coming to save your part

[00:42:21] from you

[00:42:23] but it doesn't mean that you can't start

[00:42:25] creating all things

[00:42:27] in your life that can

[00:42:29] support and help you

[00:42:31] about all you've got to do on your own

[00:42:33] in fact its shit

[00:42:35] i'm your own head

[00:42:37] also on that note

[00:42:39] having a day where I'm like, you know, I'm not well feeling depressed.

[00:42:44] You know, it's like, well, what I want to do is lay on the bed, but it's like

[00:42:47] actually, if I get up, go for a work, go for a walk, do, you know, say, right,

[00:42:53] I'll do like an hour's work or I'll send some emails, you know, like the 20 minute

[00:42:58] rule often, if you say, right, I'll do 20 minutes or something, then it leads onto

[00:43:01] something else. But, you know, as you say, all those things are really hard,

[00:43:06] but then at the end of the day, it's like, well, you know, if I'd spent the

[00:43:10] day laying on the bed, I'd feel worse than I would, you know, and, and

[00:43:17] you can get in that cycle that David. I think the other thing to be wary of that

[00:43:21] is that it's understanding what your level one looks like. Those consistency

[00:43:25] things that for you that are absolutely basic, that you can do because it's

[00:43:31] okay to line your bed dude. Like if you feel like crap, it, you know, accepts,

[00:43:37] let that shit go. Know that this is an emotion and that it is,

[00:43:41] you're disarraying feeling right now, but no have the faith and know that

[00:43:46] you will come, it will fade, the shit glasses will clear as they say,

[00:43:51] will come out of this, but if you beat yourself up full being on the bed,

[00:43:55] then you can start that cycle of criticism, and the mind stays in that place,

[00:43:59] rather than looking at the factual side of things or the wise mind of going,

[00:44:03] we know what it's so played to. But just stay in the game.

[00:44:07] I've had drunk some water. Maybe I'd need to get up and stretch my arms,

[00:44:10] whatever, just do something, you know, a little bit of something, but don't have

[00:44:14] a go at yourself for feeling bad, except that this is just what's happening

[00:44:18] right now. Okay. But that's where you can look at. Where is my,

[00:44:22] where's my, where can I lean into my curiosity or my courage on my community?

[00:44:27] What was my consistent thing that I can just, just, just do that.

[00:44:31] I know that I'm still in here. I'm all right. Okay.

[00:44:33] But I think that's the thing as well. I've got to get out of go and do that

[00:44:36] run. I've got to do and you don't and then you feel even worse and you're off

[00:44:39] the verge of a cliff now. Bring that bar down. It's okay.

[00:44:43] Staying in the game. Just do a couple of bits. You know,

[00:44:46] you're going to come out of this, look to lean into your community. Let someone

[00:44:50] know. Do you know what I'm all?

[00:44:52] But yeah, I think well anyway, once again, you know, we've unfortunately got,

[00:44:57] got the end of the episode.

[00:45:00] When it feels like we're only just scratching the surface.

[00:45:02] Well, yeah, thanks a lot, Tyler. I'll.

[00:45:05] Thank you, chaps. Again, pretty sure I brilliant. What were you doing?

[00:45:09] Yeah. If you want to come and join me versus life at some point,

[00:45:11] you'd be more than welcome.

[00:45:12] What's got to see in in in wrapping up, right? I mean this, you know,

[00:45:16] it's a state of set, right? We can go on. You know, we just touch on the surface.

[00:45:20] But, you know, first of all, thanks for coming and thanks for sharing, you know,

[00:45:23] your experience in your life story. And, you know, as you said, life like this

[00:45:27] changing is this constant change. And, you know, as you said, we need to stay in

[00:45:31] the game because we can always make a difference, right? I think that's my key

[00:45:36] day. As you said, right? I know, you know, as a solid, a solid worthy,

[00:45:39] right? That's where we need to meet. You need to come and keep going.

[00:45:43] Boy, you should be more than welcome.

[00:45:48] Thanks for listening to this week's episode.

[00:45:50] Feel free to reach out to Folka or David via our website,

[00:45:54] www.manupdown.com or podcast at manupdown.com with any feedback

[00:46:00] or to let us know what topics you'd like us to cover in the future.

[00:46:03] Hear you again soon.