Glen Beamson, Chief Technology Sponsor at Welldoing

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Man Up Man Down Podcast, presented by Volker Ballueder and David Pawsey.

[00:00:12] We discuss the pressures and challenges faced by men approaching middle age that we're

[00:00:16] often too embarrassed to speak about with our friends.

[00:00:20] You can find this online at www.manupdown.com.

[00:00:26] Enjoy the show and don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review.

[00:00:34] Welcome to another episode of Man Up Man Down.

[00:00:38] Today we welcome Glenn Beanson.

[00:00:39] Now, Glenn wears many hats so there will probably be some achievements and accolades that I miss

[00:00:44] out here.

[00:00:45] However, I involve can know him as the chief technology sponsor at Well Doing, a platform

[00:00:50] that matches you with the right therapist or coach, but you'll probably know that name

[00:00:54] as they are our long time supporters.

[00:00:57] Some on hand, Glenn has a lot of experience helping start-ups scale through technologies

[00:01:02] also worked in big tech.

[00:01:04] Unsurprisingly he's also passionate about mental health and self improvement and is a qualified

[00:01:09] executive coach himself.

[00:01:10] And as I was doing some research, I also found some pictures online which appears to show

[00:01:15] him competing in the desert ultra, which seems to become a bit of a prerequisite for guests

[00:01:21] on Man Up Man Down recently.

[00:01:24] There's a lot to discuss and I'll say probably lots of missed out there.

[00:01:27] So welcome, Glenn.

[00:01:28] Thanks for taking the time to join us.

[00:01:30] Thanks very much for having me.

[00:01:32] Excited to be here.

[00:01:33] Yeah, well, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:35] Another ultra marathon runner.

[00:01:38] No idea.

[00:01:39] Well, I would call myself a little truerther and I took part in an ultra marathon but I'm

[00:01:43] certainly no run-rider I think.

[00:01:45] So you've done one antic too box or have you done several?

[00:01:48] So is I?

[00:01:49] No, I'm doing that.

[00:01:50] So basically I'm a bit of a kind of magpie anyway.

[00:01:55] So I like trying loads of different things.

[00:01:57] I'm quite happy to be, you know, average out a lot of things and tries many things like

[00:02:02] it.

[00:02:03] And years ago, like a lot of people I thought, right, I'll try the London marathon and

[00:02:06] every time I trained, I got to about 12 kilometers and then got shin splints every time.

[00:02:12] And eventually I went to a podiatrist and they put me on the running machine, you know,

[00:02:15] and they put these little things on your knees and they watch you run.

[00:02:18] And she basically finished and said, yeah, you're not cut out to run.

[00:02:22] Your legs are just a one key shade.

[00:02:24] I've got legs like I could sit on a horse and my ankles with me.

[00:02:26] I've got very bandy legs.

[00:02:28] And she said, you're not cut out to run.

[00:02:31] You can't do a marathon.

[00:02:32] So I said, okay, fine.

[00:02:33] So I put that to one side, did lots of different sports.

[00:02:35] And then when I was in my mid 40s, I was sitting around a campfire in the middle of the desert

[00:02:42] fun enough.

[00:02:43] I was working out in the middle east and I was somebody had just completed the marathon

[00:02:47] day.

[00:02:48] So I said, yeah, I'd love to do that.

[00:02:50] And they said, well, why don't you do it?

[00:02:51] That's actually I'm going to run.

[00:02:53] Why not do that?

[00:02:54] And then I can mention the tick off like, you know, at the time it was caught as the toughest

[00:02:58] ultra in the world.

[00:02:59] I thought, I'll tick that off and that's what he done.

[00:03:02] So I signed up.

[00:03:03] It's a ballot.

[00:03:04] It came through saying, yet you've got the place.

[00:03:06] So I thought, okay, I better start training.

[00:03:09] And I actually went to see a running coach.

[00:03:11] And I said, look, I'm thinking of doing this.

[00:03:14] What should I do?

[00:03:15] What's the training plan?

[00:03:16] So what's your normal marathon time?

[00:03:18] And I said, yeah, I've never done a marathon.

[00:03:20] He was like, okay, what's your normal half marathon time?

[00:03:23] Nope.

[00:03:24] Okay, well, what's your 10k pace?

[00:03:26] What's your race pace?

[00:03:27] Never done a 10k.

[00:03:28] Five K?

[00:03:29] Nope.

[00:03:30] He said, you've got no chance of finishing that.

[00:03:34] So at that point, I was like, right, I'm definitely doing this now and I'm definitely

[00:03:37] finishing it.

[00:03:38] So that was that.

[00:03:40] So you're the self person that is motivated by people telling you, you can't do improving

[00:03:47] the wrong man.

[00:03:48] Yeah, I guess.

[00:03:50] Yeah, I always think if you want to do something like half of it is just keeping going.

[00:03:55] When everyone else gives up, it's just keep going and put a plan in place and just follow

[00:04:02] that plan really.

[00:04:03] So I basically was lazy and I started training.

[00:04:07] So the race is in April, May, I think.

[00:04:11] And round about December, I was at a Christmas party and I thought, do you know what?

[00:04:14] I really need to start this training because in whatever it is, 20 weeks time, I'm going

[00:04:18] to be running a marathon a day for five days.

[00:04:21] And so January, I put this plan together and I could see by week four, I was meant to

[00:04:25] be running something like 20k or week five.

[00:04:27] I was thinking, oh my God, you know, I'm never going to do that.

[00:04:30] You just slowly, slowly do it and it's weird.

[00:04:35] You go from like you get to the point where you're going out for a 20k run in the first

[00:04:39] five k as you warm up.

[00:04:40] You know, your head's in a totally different space.

[00:04:43] And a lot of the ultras, you walk a lot of them, especially in the desert unless you're

[00:04:47] really super fit after late.

[00:04:49] You know, you kind of maybe might walk for quarter of an hour, runs a slightly higher than

[00:04:52] its quarter of an hour.

[00:04:54] But I recommend these things.

[00:04:56] I mean, they were, it's like extreme camping with running in the middle of it.

[00:05:00] That's what it felt like.

[00:05:02] It's totally mental.

[00:05:03] More mental and physical.

[00:05:04] Yeah, you've almost kind of described how simple it is but also how difficult it is in

[00:05:13] the, you know, it is literally a case of putting one foot in front of the other.

[00:05:17] But as you say, I mean, I sort of have done a couple of ultras now, not in the desert.

[00:05:26] In the UK, it's a very different conditions.

[00:05:29] But I mean, I just remember like my friends, I'd started doing I think 10k's and I had

[00:05:37] a friend who'd started doing 10k's and then he'd done a half marathon.

[00:05:41] And he was like, well, I'm doing this half marathon.

[00:05:42] Do you want to do it?

[00:05:43] And I was just kind of like, nah, not really.

[00:05:47] And then, well, it was actually sort of near where a lot of family lived and I was like,

[00:05:51] yeah, I think I will sort of do that and start a training.

[00:05:55] And then I was like, actually, if I'm got to that level of fitness, I'm never going

[00:06:00] to be that fit to then do a marathon.

[00:06:03] So as I see it, I saw not for a marathon as well.

[00:06:06] And yeah, it is almost like, and so with my sort of ultras, I did the London's Brighton

[00:06:12] Challenge which I think it's 35 mile.

[00:06:16] I mean, you can do it all in one go.

[00:06:18] But I live at the, you say about extreme camping.

[00:06:22] There was like, you know, you could camp but I actually live in the village.

[00:06:25] They're the good ones.

[00:06:27] And it's like, yeah, so I was like, right, well, I'll, you know, just split it over two days.

[00:06:31] But, you know, if someone sort of came up to me and said, oh, you know, you should do

[00:06:36] that.

[00:06:37] I'd be like, no way.

[00:06:38] But then as you say, it's almost like incremental steps to building up to that level of fitness.

[00:06:45] Yeah.

[00:06:46] And I think it's funny like, you know, when I was doing it, it is a lot.

[00:06:48] A lot of middle aged kind of people doing it.

[00:06:50] I think your body is a bit more ready to do the long, slow and steady, the more the

[00:06:56] older you get because almost because you've got the patients.

[00:06:58] I think if I wanted to do that when I was 20 and someone said, you're going to run for

[00:07:01] four hours.

[00:07:02] I'm like, yeah, whatever.

[00:07:03] I'll go and run for half an hour and then go in the pub.

[00:07:05] Thanks.

[00:07:06] But, you know, when you get older, you've got more time to kind of do these things.

[00:07:08] Well, but again, as well though, is it almost like a mindset that we reach at that age

[00:07:14] of, you know, you sort of realize that actually it is more mental and physical.

[00:07:20] Yeah.

[00:07:21] I mean, you know, you talk about actually just listening to one of your last guests talking

[00:07:27] about, you know, middle-eyed crisis, obviously, it crops up a lot in your podcast tonight.

[00:07:31] I kind of dispute almost that word because I think sometimes I think it's middle-eyed choice.

[00:07:36] And I think when you have, you know, if you say, well, someone suddenly bought a fast

[00:07:40] car or some middle-eyed crisis, I'm like, well, maybe or maybe that's just now they're

[00:07:44] at that age where actually they've got the money that they can do it.

[00:07:47] They always wanted to do it, but they never had the money when they're younger and they've

[00:07:50] decided, well, this is probably my last chance to do this and enjoy it.

[00:07:54] So I'm going to go for it.

[00:07:55] And I think that maybe is all just a little bit like that as well.

[00:07:58] You suddenly got the choice.

[00:07:59] You can afford the time train.

[00:08:01] You can afford the cost of flying to wherever it is to go and do the training.

[00:08:06] It's not that you, I didn't feel at any point, I was in like a crisis like I must do this.

[00:08:11] And you feel like you got the choice to do it and change your life a little bit.

[00:08:16] I never had a burning desire to run a marathon, but at the same time I was like, I don't

[00:08:23] want to be in my 70s or 80s wishing that I'd done a marathon.

[00:08:28] And it's sort of, I mean, I've sort of went through a period where I sort of have set

[00:08:36] myself a big old, well, you know, an endurance challenge each year.

[00:08:40] So as the pandemic hit, I just signed up for 10 kilometers swim and they're suddenly,

[00:08:47] you know, the pool's closed down.

[00:08:49] You know, all the open swimming like places shut down.

[00:08:52] And I was like, all right, I've chosen the wrong event this year when I've got all

[00:08:56] the time I want to run in cycle, but I've chosen to swim.

[00:09:00] But yeah, I mean, I, and I keep thinking right, I need to sign up to another challenge

[00:09:05] because I've not done one for a couple of years.

[00:09:07] But then at the same time, I'm like, I've kind of, I've proved to myself that I can, you

[00:09:13] know, put my mind and body through that.

[00:09:16] Yeah.

[00:09:17] So where, you know, now I'm almost like, yeah, I don't know, I'm sort of in a stage of

[00:09:22] like, I want to do something like that again.

[00:09:26] But yeah, I'm not sure.

[00:09:27] I think I think you need adventures, you know, so interestingly enough, my wife's similar

[00:09:33] age to me and they're super about catching up, you know, her and her girlfriends.

[00:09:37] They're really good.

[00:09:38] And whereas me and my kind of guy friends that I've known since I was, you know, whatever

[00:09:42] 10, 15, 20 years old were terrible, you know, because someone's like, oh, I just can't

[00:09:47] make it.

[00:09:48] I've got stuck at work or I've got to do this.

[00:09:50] And so a few years ago, I said to them, listen, when was the last time any of you had

[00:09:53] like an adventure?

[00:09:54] You know, we used to have them all the time when we were kids, you know, you go camping

[00:09:57] or as you get older, you challenge yourselves to do different things.

[00:10:00] And so we've got a thing now where we said, like, well, once a year, let's do an adventure,

[00:10:06] you know, so we're going to try and swim to the out of white, for example.

[00:10:09] You know, and then maybe it's the next year after that we might go and do some chalice

[00:10:13] like a running challenge somewhere or something else.

[00:10:15] But something where you've got to target is once a year, you dedicate yourself to make sure

[00:10:20] you take that time off.

[00:10:21] And there's no pressure.

[00:10:22] You don't have to finish the race.

[00:10:24] It's, you know, and so I kind of think otherwise life just gets dull if you don't have adventures.

[00:10:29] You know, whether that's, you know, in your career or in your personal life, I do

[00:10:34] the sport.

[00:10:35] I think you have to do something and again, that comes back to a slot.

[00:10:38] You know, if people are doing these things in mid-life, it's not a crisis and it's just

[00:10:42] having adventures and doing things and keeping life interesting.

[00:10:47] So let me try to get a word in so we could talk about all these morathons that are run

[00:10:52] and all these ultra-sire dreamt of.

[00:10:57] They might be in your future though still.

[00:10:58] You never know.

[00:10:59] It's not about me to which of you are.

[00:11:02] My motivation for my first marathon was like, I always said when my wife did one, I'm

[00:11:06] like, if I start, I'm going to be addicted to it.

[00:11:08] I'm not going to start.

[00:11:09] And then she'd done one and I'll like shit, no, I have to do it.

[00:11:14] So I did tick the box.

[00:11:15] But yeah, I don't know what would I do more?

[00:11:17] I mean, let's maybe go back to your latest point you made about, you know, the mid-life,

[00:11:24] right?

[00:11:25] I think a lot of people get to mid-life and there's avoid, right?

[00:11:29] There's this space, you know, obviously mentally or physically in that sense as well.

[00:11:35] You've got like, shit, I'm not as fit as I used to be, right?

[00:11:38] So I want to go back to the gym or I need something new to do.

[00:11:42] I need a challenge like a marathon because once I was at you have time, right?

[00:11:47] Kids, kids are usually at an age they can look after themselves.

[00:11:51] You don't have to be around them all the time so you can carve out these 15, 20 K runs

[00:11:56] right?

[00:11:57] That's not half marathon you talked about, right?

[00:12:00] You can carve them out on a Saturday morning, right?

[00:12:02] You know, I used to go for a Saturday morning, six till age, right?

[00:12:06] You did your 21k done, right?

[00:12:08] We can done.

[00:12:09] It's, it's, I think that's life transition where you, you know, where you want to suddenly

[00:12:14] find yourself a small time, not maybe not as fit.

[00:12:17] I don't know if there's a stat for it but there must be one.

[00:12:19] I need to google it.

[00:12:21] I bet that middle aged men are the people that buys most road bikes in the UK for

[00:12:27] a bit.

[00:12:28] Yeah, that's it.

[00:12:29] Yes, it's like it's a typical one, right?

[00:12:31] They people getting to cycling everyone else is doing it.

[00:12:34] It's healthy and you can do it with other people as well.

[00:12:37] So to your point, right?

[00:12:38] You have this adventure.

[00:12:39] And I lost the idea of having an adventure once here because I think on, on Marloss

[00:12:44] Elastec juice we said, oh, we should do that every year, right?

[00:12:47] Oh yeah.

[00:12:48] That's about 10 years ago though.

[00:12:49] Yeah, you can't be just having a day out, can you just do something and then go to

[00:12:53] a pub and sit down at the chat and have a beer, whatever you're.

[00:12:57] Yeah, hello, it's Volker here.

[00:13:00] I hope you enjoy this episode.

[00:13:02] You might not realise that I have been coaching for almost a decade through both third parties

[00:13:08] and private clients.

[00:13:10] Do the time I've worked with brands such as General Electric, Imperial brands, DHL

[00:13:15] and Pepsi.

[00:13:17] However, this year I'm putting a big emphasis on growing my private coaching practice,

[00:13:22] improving lives of middle aged men in leadership positions.

[00:13:26] So if you hit midlife transition point and you might be a bit stuck or looking to improve

[00:13:31] your work life balance, your career, or productivity, you want to build a new habit

[00:13:37] where you just want to become a better version of yourself, please hit me up.

[00:13:43] You can reach me on Volker.navtus, that's Volker.et, obnaet.us or LinkedIn, whatever is

[00:13:51] easiest.

[00:13:52] Thanks and now back to the episode.

[00:13:55] Should we talk a little bit about what you're doing at well during?

[00:14:02] Yeah, yeah so we're in different business spots.

[00:14:05] Yeah, yeah so I guess like going back to the whole kind of midlife thing so I guess

[00:14:10] I started off in Big Tech, did a lot of kind of CTO, international CTO jobs.

[00:14:16] And it was actually quite a funny career so it was never something that I intended to do.

[00:14:19] I started off basically I grew up in the North East.

[00:14:22] I come from a mining community, 9.84, 8.5, of course the miners strike, everyone's out

[00:14:28] of work.

[00:14:29] Then I come from the East Coast Hardly Pool and the Doc Yards closed down.

[00:14:34] And you just see all these communities just crumble from really thriving communities to

[00:14:38] nothing.

[00:14:39] And I think I just thought like I don't want to ever be in a position where somebody can

[00:14:43] do that to me, you know, take my livelihood away and do something.

[00:14:46] So I did that kind of thing that we all tell our kids to do, you know, got my head down,

[00:14:50] worked hard at school and so on and ended up doing a PhD in when they were building GPS

[00:14:55] basically and helping to improve the orbits of GPS for climate change, looking at mean

[00:15:00] sea level rise while I can't think.

[00:15:02] Then very randomly I was in Canary Wharf working there when they were building Canary Wharf

[00:15:08] because we were measuring how much Canary Wharf sinks using satellites the first time

[00:15:12] that you could do that.

[00:15:14] And I saw a whole other guys going into a pub in suits and it was raining, I was on a

[00:15:18] building site and I thought you know what, I'm on a building site here in the rain and

[00:15:22] they're inside a pub, they're probably getting paid more than me.

[00:15:25] Maybe I'll see what they do.

[00:15:27] And so I went to this bank and I interviewed and I finished this interview and they said

[00:15:31] well what do you want to do?

[00:15:32] I said I have no idea.

[00:15:34] And they said well okay you've been an engineer and you can go to technology.

[00:15:38] I said okay whatever that is, I'll go and do that.

[00:15:41] And so I moved into banking into technology but it was 97 and so it was just at the

[00:15:48] kind of start as the internet was starting to bubble up.

[00:15:51] I literally knew nothing.

[00:15:52] I mean the first day I literally sat looking at this computer and couldn't even work out

[00:15:55] to turn the thing on.

[00:15:56] You know somebody came to my desk asked me for something.

[00:15:59] I said I've got no idea.

[00:16:00] They turned on my computer, wrote something down and warped off and that was my first

[00:16:02] day.

[00:16:03] I was like okay so of course this was before Google or rest of it, site to go and read books

[00:16:08] and books and books and books.

[00:16:11] And we was delivering a project and I said well look why don't we use this new thing

[00:16:14] called the internet?

[00:16:16] And everyone was like okay that's good rather than putting floppy disks in the machine.

[00:16:19] I said yeah you can log on to a browser and get this program.

[00:16:23] So we built this program on the daily roll we've meant to roll it out.

[00:16:27] This is to about two and a half thousand people.

[00:16:29] I realized nobody had an internet browser on their desktop.

[00:16:33] So I had to run out, send the team out to the local corner shop by a whole load of copies

[00:16:37] of computer shop in magazine.

[00:16:38] It's on the front they had a disk with internet explorer one on it.

[00:16:43] We went and we had to load the browser and then we delivered this project anyway that

[00:16:46] started to hold a whole kind of creating almost innovation so I saw the whole.com boom

[00:16:51] near the rise of mobile apps all the rest of it and basically spent you know kind of

[00:16:56] went from career change to career change in the bank.

[00:17:00] Just really having the time of my life you know having fun I was young and then at some

[00:17:04] point there were some politics going on I didn't like it so that's it I was on and I kind

[00:17:08] of it.

[00:17:09] Anyway, I went to an interview in this guy I said to him why did you leave?

[00:17:14] I said well there's loads of politics I thought it was nonsense so I left.

[00:17:19] And he said something that really kind of changed my life he said well because you left

[00:17:24] it means all of your team now got to deal it was basically a manager who was very much

[00:17:27] a bully.

[00:17:29] All of your team have to deal with that.

[00:17:30] He said if you actually concentrate on your career and became senior yourself then you

[00:17:36] set those boundaries.

[00:17:37] You can decide if there's bullies or not no that's your call.

[00:17:40] I thought yeah he's absolutely bang on the money you know because people talk about company

[00:17:45] cultures but that I contend there isn't really a company culture there's a culture of management

[00:17:50] and if the guy running the company is a bully no matter what the culture is the company

[00:17:55] culture says on the you know formally that's what the cultural be.

[00:18:00] If the guy running the company is actually a decent fair bloke the culture will be

[00:18:04] that you know.

[00:18:05] And so I went back into it and actually concentrated on my career and ended up being an international

[00:18:10] CIO basically for a bank and then a CTO for a sovereign wealth fund.

[00:18:15] And at one point I was 46 I think I was sitting in a meeting I just suddenly thought what

[00:18:23] am I doing here?

[00:18:24] I've done what I wanted to.

[00:18:25] I was financially secure which had always like I say word me for my childhood saying

[00:18:29] my dad getting put out of work and everybody I knew you're getting put out of it.

[00:18:33] I thought nobody can affect me in that way and I thought now that achieved what I want

[00:18:38] to do.

[00:18:39] I've ran some really large teams and built the culture that I thought was very kind of

[00:18:44] caring and kind but at the same time very very professional we got a lot of work done.

[00:18:48] But I kind of felt like yeah in my head I kind of almost ticked off what I was in this

[00:18:51] career for so now I want to go and do something really go back to the roots go back to like

[00:18:57] code and go back to working with startups and in things that have got social impact.

[00:19:01] So of course you know working in a bank you know there there might be some positive social

[00:19:05] impact through you know the money then gets put into good cause or whatever but I want

[00:19:09] to be right close to some of the social impact.

[00:19:12] And my feeling was two big things conservation because the outdoors is very kind of close

[00:19:17] to my heart and I know when I really start my career in no climate change and mental

[00:19:22] health because I think it's such a such a huge problem in the generations coming through

[00:19:28] so I said that's it I'd like to work with startup that works in social impact and through

[00:19:34] pure chance really I was out mountain biking with a friend of mine the village they knew

[00:19:38] Julia they introduced us and I joined well doing as a CTO and that was fantastic.

[00:19:45] And so I really enjoyed that the whole startup piece you know it was really exciting to be

[00:19:50] you know having done the big job where you obviously have to go to funding committees

[00:19:54] and management committees you're doing people's appraisals and end of your reviews and all

[00:19:58] that kind of thing.

[00:19:59] So then move right down to tiny startups where you're the CTO but you're also the chief

[00:20:04] of fundraising you're also the cleaner you're also doing all the strategy.

[00:20:09] I really thrive on that I love just doing lots of different things it really keeps me interested.

[00:20:15] And so I spent kind of five six years in the startup world but over the last year or so

[00:20:22] just had this creeping feeling that actually what I really underestimated that I missed

[00:20:29] was creating this culture in a team and a lot of mentoring that I used to do with the

[00:20:34] large temes to mentor a lot of managers you can do some really kind of great stuff with

[00:20:39] young kids coming through you know and then it's great to watch their careers grow so I

[00:20:43] started putting out some feelers.

[00:20:46] And through a chance a role came up that was again another kind of big role and it was

[00:20:52] at a very kind of entrepreneurial company with a lot of opportunity to change things and

[00:20:57] move things really quickly so I said okay so at the tender age of 53 I'm back in big tech.

[00:21:05] And so it's with with well doing is great because basically we have repositioned the platform

[00:21:10] that's all in a great shape you know Julian the team are doing some fantastic stuff there

[00:21:14] with the therapist and I'm now taking a little bit of a step back still looking at all

[00:21:19] of the technology still looking after the strategy you know I'm not their full time let's say

[00:21:24] hands on with the code.

[00:21:26] Lots of interesting things in that you know that story.

[00:21:32] I mean well the things I guess the two things I'd like to talk about but stop me Volcro

[00:21:38] if I go on for too long is you know still in well it's about company culture but also

[00:21:45] I guess just sort of going back to what you were saying about you know the environment

[00:21:49] that you grew up with grew up in and you know the mind's being closed down.

[00:21:54] So how old were you when that happened?

[00:21:56] Yeah.

[00:21:57] So 15.

[00:21:58] Right okay so yeah what sort of impact I mean did you kind of recognize

[00:22:02] the impact but perhaps I had on your dad's mental health?

[00:22:06] Well well so yeah so it's interesting so it has an immediate impact because everybody

[00:22:14] was out of work and you know my dad lost his job so I can really remember clearly going

[00:22:20] home and opening the pantry door and there was one of the first kind of supermarkets

[00:22:25] that did his own labels it was called fine fair and their own label stuff was bright yellow

[00:22:30] like lemon yellow packaging and would just have black or white big net so I opened the

[00:22:35] pantry door and it would just all be yellow if you're like a box just said conflicts or

[00:22:40] jam or you know bread or something and that was it and you know dad had to sell his car

[00:22:48] so so you know at the time actually we were really good at Babmonton me my brother we

[00:22:51] both kept in the county I used to kept an under 16 she kept an under 18s they wanted

[00:22:56] us to go and play with the national team but it was in gate said and we didn't have a

[00:23:00] car so it says no we can't carry on that spot so kids that we used to beat then trained

[00:23:05] and then went on being land team and we we had to say no we didn't have the money so

[00:23:09] it had like an immediate impact at the same time it was really my mom dad handled it

[00:23:15] in a really great way you know I mean they I remember them sitting down with us and they

[00:23:19] said listen work really close to why I'm paying the mortgage so the union your brother

[00:23:25] you need to take a job and we're just gonna have to to use the money you know foot for

[00:23:30] a little bit you know use the Christmas tips and so on and the Nigel has had the problem

[00:23:35] with that because we were you know we're a close family and you just thought yeah that's

[00:23:38] make I understand you've explained that to me I understand that so we just go and do it

[00:23:43] in the communities it was you know North East really hasn't recovered from it in my opinion

[00:23:48] I mean those mining communities were solid I mean it was so fascinating you know you saw

[00:23:53] the end of a of a way of life that almost hadn't changed since Victorian times you know even

[00:23:59] things like my granddad used to speak a dialect called pitmatic which was so broad really

[00:24:05] unless you were down the mind you just couldn't understand it it's and yet that kind of

[00:24:10] almost you know you get that really cohesive unit of men all working tightly together

[00:24:15] and then the women at home make a joke that they had clean clothes and food was very traditional

[00:24:20] kind of way suddenly everybody's out of work and as you can imagine it only takes a matter

[00:24:25] of weeks for that to spiral into crime you know abuse depression all of those things because

[00:24:33] you take away everyone's self worth so there's a lot of that having said that in our family my dad

[00:24:37] was very pragmatic man he said okay fine that's that I always want to go to university I'm going

[00:24:44] to go and do that so he managed to get a grand whatever it was two thousand pounds a year

[00:24:49] or three thousand pounds a year or something me and him went out and build in the sights and did

[00:24:53] jobs for cash in hand I was 15 size to go sit down with him and work on like sage work and

[00:24:59] laboring on building sides basically and we got by and he did his degree and then he ended up being

[00:25:05] out of work for maybe four years or something or five years and then he managed to get a job

[00:25:10] and you know they they went back and by that time I don't I got sponsored by the army they paid

[00:25:16] for me to go to six form and then I could do six form and went off to university so yeah it's

[00:25:22] uh it I'm fortunate my father passed away because I would love at this age to talk to him about that

[00:25:28] you know because he was probably roughly my age now I'm thinking and how he handled that you know

[00:25:33] he had three kids no money whatsoever and it must have been super stressful because there wasn't

[00:25:37] even a hope of getting a job not for a long time you know yeah I mean that's you know I guess

[00:25:43] that's the you know sort of the aspect that I was thinking of that you know it's not not only

[00:25:49] the only way of life that you've known it's the only way of life that you're far the new your

[00:25:54] grandfather knew you know it's so embedded in oh yeah all the way back yet yeah man up man down is

[00:26:01] sponsored by well doing there's someone who has seen a counselor for a number of years I think

[00:26:06] their approach is great they want me to find the mental health professional who is right for you

[00:26:10] you can filter your search to highlight therapists with expertise where you need it

[00:26:14] we can pay to use their personalized matching service the people who run well doing are experts

[00:26:20] in mental wellbeing and they also have loads of posts and interviews to keep your mental health

[00:26:24] in good shape take a look at well doing the org I mean I'm going through a bit of a period at the

[00:26:31] moment where you know I'm reading more about AI and chat GPT and I actually I was on an all day

[00:26:37] course yesterday for chat GPT but you know I'm like I'm a copywriter and I can see what it can do

[00:26:44] and I'm like oh my god I'm obsolete and I'm about to have a word with myself it's like well

[00:26:50] you know it's almost writing is part of me but that's not where all my worth comes from

[00:26:56] yeah you know it's sort of I guess I'm a bit nervous about having to re-skill and reinvent

[00:27:02] myself but then you know compare that to a situation like that but then at the same time on my

[00:27:08] world there is going to be massive you know all week and the sort of see the same sort of job

[00:27:12] displacement as you know industrialization to then the full circle as you say of the mind to

[00:27:19] being closed down yeah yeah it's well I think it's a long way to run isn't it I mean interesting

[00:27:25] enough when I did my climate research back in 1997 if you talk to your scientists then about

[00:27:31] what was happening in the climate you'd have a third say it's fine things will kind of cool down

[00:27:35] you'd have a third saying well the graphs can be roughly flat and the third saying no it's

[00:27:39] exponentially up no question and then you rolled that on about 10 years after that and of course

[00:27:45] by then there'd been a whole load of research and loads if those are new data and techniques

[00:27:49] are on at that point it was unequivocal like 99.99% of scientists said it there isn't a question

[00:27:57] the earth is heating up and it's going to be exponential and if you don't do something it's going

[00:28:01] to be problem now of course we roll on to now and we're all seeing that the out for that I think

[00:28:07] AI is similar in that nobody can really call what's going to happen with it and I think you could

[00:28:11] take a very pessimistic view and say that's it we're all gonna we're all gonna I don't know if you

[00:28:16] have watched the film Wally yeah there's kind of kids card two thing and basically all humans are

[00:28:20] just like big blobs sitting in chairs while all of the AI and all the robots do everything and

[00:28:25] they're just all depressing and just you could take like a pessimistic view and say well yeah

[00:28:29] you're coming on to like contentedness and self-worth and if you haven't got something to do as a

[00:28:33] job or something to feel to create and do and feel satisfied then I think that's a real

[00:28:40] as an issue you know from the other hand you might say where we harness AI and actually what it

[00:28:45] does is it just takes away a lot of tedious things and we do we end up doing stuff that's more creative

[00:28:51] it's a tough one though because everybody isn't creative and some people you know that there's

[00:28:56] always going to be a percentage of people who need to just do a steady job that could potentially

[00:29:01] be made more efficient could be automated and is it right to automate it and I I feel like

[00:29:08] you know it's getting kind of I guess very cerebral but I do think that that you really want

[00:29:14] everybody to be employed doing something that they feel some self-worth at that is more important

[00:29:19] than being hyper-efficient and the thing also it's it's the value that it brings to society

[00:29:27] I was speaking to one of the dads at my son's football club and they're you know unfortunately

[00:29:34] experienced some crime and you know he's like the police aren't interested and online well it's not

[00:29:39] the fact that they're not interested they just don't have the resources and you know in your life

[00:29:45] yeah you know those well yeah are those a sort of job that could be refilled

[00:29:51] yeah yeah I do I do think it'll be an interesting thing because you know without getting

[00:29:56] political it is something that I think political political kind of sector let's say world wide

[00:30:02] we'll have to grapple with as we go forward that as we automate more things more people worldwide will

[00:30:06] be potentially unemployed and what is the solution you know how do you get those people feeling

[00:30:13] like they're living a fulfilling life otherwise you know you do get societal problems that

[00:30:17] that knock on you know you go back to the middle ages and the whole but who the guys that kind of

[00:30:22] went and broke the seed drill because it you know basically was it was making whole agricultural

[00:30:27] revolution is putting them all out of a job you know it's the judgment and we get that kind of thing

[00:30:32] it might be in gestural till that's not true for the planet yeah yeah no pain went to the

[00:30:39] seed drill I got remembered up yeah so yeah so I think that's it and it comes back to like what

[00:30:43] is content in this so I certainly I worked in the Middle East and I certainly saw you they've

[00:30:48] have huge problems with depression there because you know you suddenly have a lot of wealth in

[00:30:52] the country from the oil and so on and if you can sit in front of a TV and buy anything that you want

[00:30:59] it's you know it's almost depressing right because it nothing has any worth if you haven't had

[00:31:03] to work to do it there's something deep and hours psyche I think that means you if you work for it

[00:31:08] and someone says well don't or you get something for that it definitely ticks a box where

[00:31:13] we're hardwired I think to be do something for society and get rewarded for it I mean with this AI

[00:31:20] and so so I always bring it back to therapy and and coaching a bit I think if you coach like

[00:31:27] like I do in and you do I guess a little bit as well right and therapy right you can't replace it

[00:31:33] with say art can you I mean I know there are a couple of apps out there trying to give you

[00:31:39] reassurance you know via AI and but I don't think actual therapy can be replaced with computers

[00:31:47] I I don't think so and I think it's because we also have an inherent laziness and so I think when

[00:31:55] you think about therapy it's falls I think there's a little bit of an overlap with things like sports

[00:32:03] coaches and yeah there's a different saying I'm gonna go to the gym and you go two or three times

[00:32:09] then you kind of then you can't the next week because something else is up and you can't

[00:32:12] wake after then you kind of give them don't bother and then your next year's new year's resolution

[00:32:17] is I actually need to go to the gym again because I didn't get fit last year and I think a little

[00:32:22] bit like that if you have to see a physical therapist once a week I think a massively important

[00:32:27] piece of that aside from the therapy is it's just it's consistent and you have a consistent reason

[00:32:32] for going and interestingly enough I must mean so I do love you know working with people who've

[00:32:39] got really interesting ideas interesting startups and I saw somebody a couple of weeks ago

[00:32:43] and they were using technology for phobias so one of the ways that you do your therapy around phobias

[00:32:49] let's say you're scared of spiders for example you know you might say okay so imagine you're in a

[00:32:53] field and there's a spider in the next field what's your anxiety level okay it's one out of 10 okay now

[00:32:58] that spider's in the field next to you what is it okay maybe it's two out okay now it's only

[00:33:02] wrong all right that's nine out of ten and of course you're working with that client to try and

[00:33:07] bring that anxiety down so that when they visualize the spider on the arm now it's two or three out of

[00:33:12] ten and I can handle it the problem is if you're a very visual person maybe that worked for you but

[00:33:18] if you're not you eventually might come out of that therapy session say yeah I could handle

[00:33:22] visualizing that spider on my arm and it's two or three out of ten and then you whenever lift

[00:33:27] a box from in your room the spider runs out and you have a you know a huge panic attack because

[00:33:32] actually you said that you've got yourself visualized in that position but you couldn't do it so what

[00:33:37] this guy is doing is he's using an anoculus you know the virtual reality I think and so and basically

[00:33:45] they've used lots of computer generation but also then the 360 degree camera technology these days

[00:33:51] so the translate is a real tranchilla and when you're looking through it is on your arm

[00:33:56] and so you don't have to visualize it it is bang on the money looks exactly like a spider's on

[00:34:01] your arm and so they're just starting some testing with that and they took it once that further

[00:34:07] said but let's do it so that you can just basically pay for this therapy so you might send

[00:34:12] a subscription and we'll send you the Oculus through the post with all of the programs loaded up

[00:34:17] and you just do that. The problem with that is that then they found it individuals were not consistent

[00:34:25] in doing it and so the levels of you know positive therapeutic outcomes were not as much as if

[00:34:30] they said actually you're going to still do exactly the same thing but you're going to do it physically

[00:34:33] in an office whatever 3 pm every day because that forced you to go and do it consistently so you got

[00:34:40] that's that's interesting because I can see how it works with 4bsl and I guess it's similar to

[00:34:47] having a pre-recorded it notes the session which you know I'm sure it will last you

[00:34:52] and everything else but it's not tailor-meat you don't have to decline in relationship you don't

[00:34:56] have to trust so you can't go into the specifics so it works for a certain extent and I'm trying

[00:35:02] to look for an analogy here but yeah and I can see I can see how that works right they they'd use

[00:35:08] speciality to I don't look at spiders yeah yeah and eventually go like yeah spiders that's fine

[00:35:14] you know so more than enough I mean I've brought it up well I think I'll bring it up in pretty

[00:35:19] much every episode but there was this TV series limitless with Chris Hemsworth and you know it's

[00:35:27] all about sort of longevity and you know how he can well yeah just keep himself living longer

[00:35:35] so like one of the I think the first episode actually was kind of about anxiety and phobia and stress

[00:35:42] so it was you know it was all around how can I overcome stress and I'm sure they could have found

[00:35:47] an easier way to do this but basically they had him and I think he you know he's got

[00:35:53] always scared of heights I've gotten the turn so basically he had to walk out on like this

[00:36:00] metal girder on top of this like really high building in Sydney I think it was but sort of

[00:36:07] in preparation for that they put him in on the you know an Oculus on his head and you know they

[00:36:14] sort of showed what he was seeing and it sort of showed his heart rate and basically he was

[00:36:21] reacting physiologically as he would if he was really up on the thing and obviously he was to

[00:36:27] build him up to a point where he was confident enough to like walk out but yeah you know it is

[00:36:34] sort of interesting that you know we are getting I mean I'm focused sort of talked about

[00:36:39] you know this sort of thing of us being sat at a boardroom table you know having a chat

[00:36:46] but we're all you know in different parts of the world I mean yeah it's just so much going on

[00:36:54] in tech that's you know and you know I've sort of said about AI and I'm worried about becoming

[00:37:01] obsolete but you know the implications for it in making society better and I mean I have seen a

[00:37:09] lot of figures about well you know these jobs will be will disappear but there will be lots of new

[00:37:16] jobs created and sort of you know the jobs that our kids will have probably you know a lot of them

[00:37:22] haven't been invented yet well that's true I mean let us see they're right my granddad there he was

[00:37:28] as a coal miner he died in 1971 and then I ended up working in technology which didn't exist

[00:37:36] you know in a rural girl the CTO which didn't exist in Abu Dhabi which didn't exist

[00:37:40] yeah Negron is wildest dreams could he have ever like picture where I'm out I kind of think

[00:37:46] oh yeah I wonder what my grandkids will do it's going to be something that just I can't even

[00:37:50] end of this is because it just doesn't even start to exist at the moment I mean you know like I sort

[00:37:56] of well a conversation that me and Volka had recently there's just around our sort of fears of

[00:38:03] well our teenagers you know getting our children getting older and one of the things that we sort

[00:38:09] of talked about is I'll just you know like basically well boy races you know it's like well our

[00:38:15] kids might not necessarily be boy races but they might get in a car with someone but then on the

[00:38:21] other hand I'm like well well my son actually learned to drive you know but certainly there my

[00:38:27] grandchial probably won't learn to drive because it will all be self-driving cars by then

[00:38:33] yeah and that's a case where I think you know technology will be great I think the second that

[00:38:38] you have self-driving cars you take all that stupidness out where you get in a car and you start

[00:38:43] road rage or think oh I'll just speed round this bit yeah and you stop worrying about your older

[00:38:47] older parents right as well so my dad still insists on driving over from Germany until you

[00:38:53] sit 10 days off 80 right yeah and tell him why you know they're trains and everything else but if

[00:39:01] it was self-driving you don't have to worry about it and you don't get these people driving 20

[00:39:06] along as 60 no of all like like it's six o'clock in the morning seriously I had one again this

[00:39:12] morning or two to the gym and it's just nice to be potty my friends will tell me I'm a massive

[00:39:18] boy because of this but I always say well what frustrates me is it's the speed limit is 70

[00:39:22] why sell any cars in the country that can go over 70 because they've got a pay for police

[00:39:27] and pay for cameras and that all comes out of our taxes that you could spend on schools

[00:39:31] and something else I like it's because you want to take cars to Germany you see

[00:39:35] ah yes yeah that's basically what they say they say Glenn just very dull big quiet okay fine

[00:39:43] but I think it's about a point I think you're absolutely right I mean you know with a you know

[00:39:48] if I look at my driveway I mean I used to have some mid-life crisis car who went well above 70

[00:39:54] yes lost you don't get me wrong yeah but yeah there was no point in this country right

[00:39:59] you're having it up to 70 maybe 75 and never went over that yeah and yeah it doesn't matter

[00:40:06] right what kind of car you have because you get from A to B at 70 yeah I quite like those new

[00:40:11] 20 mile hours though and it's like you've gone back in time and you can just have like a cup of tea

[00:40:15] while you're driving through ability it's very cool and two bills it's necessary as well in my

[00:40:20] opinion we don't have them here yet but you know I can't see how people would drive any fast

[00:40:25] just to tell them you know especially when school is just out and they're about a thousand kids walking

[00:40:30] up I really live out in the rural part of what you're sharing they brought it in there the first time

[00:40:36] you do 20 miles an hour you think what speed is this this is like one mile an hour surely

[00:40:41] it's 20 feels so slow but after a while you do really get used to it and it's this relaxed

[00:40:49] you're going to think yeah that's cool well I mean I have to admit this is kind of one of my

[00:40:54] well I don't know where the favorite topics almost triggering topics just but yeah don't

[00:41:00] need to start I mean like what we have horrible problems of traffic in our village and and I sort

[00:41:07] by I set up a dangerous driving action group it's like oh yeah it's a little way

[00:41:13] but our man now if you Google Britain's most dangerous roundabout and then yeah my face might pop up

[00:41:21] we have like volunteers that do speed watch and you know and only like this week there's people

[00:41:28] like complaining about the plastic police and it just seems like the one law that people just think

[00:41:34] is you know guidance rather than law yeah and it is like well you know I don't give a fuck if

[00:41:41] I'm gonna run over your child as long as I'm not you know too and it's late to mean my mates

[00:41:46] to the pub or whatever you know it's it's have I never ever broken speed a little bit you know

[00:41:52] I hold my hands up but you know I have done it but what do you have unbelievable yeah I would

[00:41:58] love to see the research so when what is it about driving that turns very polite kind of normal people

[00:42:04] into absolute nut jobs it is something what I just understand what it is about suddenly locking

[00:42:09] yourself that little metal box then that makes some people go like that anyway we uh

[00:42:16] this is a fast-meat God of what a blend with our Gountess Aclists and getting stuck behind

[00:42:21] there with all the rest of it oh well I'm a keen cyclist uh well thanks thanks Glenn for you

[00:42:28] know all your support over the last year or so of well I think one by the time this goes out probably

[00:42:34] will be like two years but yeah um you know thanks for for all the support the world doing's given us

[00:42:41] and you know look forward to uh hearing about your adventures so you've got come a lot to do

[00:42:47] friends and with your work yeah yeah well well and yeah kind of well done to you guys I think it's

[00:42:53] such a huge it's such a huge thing of course at well doing you know we see this day in day out

[00:42:58] you know people really struggling with lots of problems and of course the percentage of men that

[00:43:03] we see on the platform was just risen hugely you know in last kind of two years we see that going

[00:43:09] that used to be kind of 70-30 women to men now that's that's the the men are getting almost to

[00:43:13] the point where we see equality with women is men feel more comfortable through podcasts like

[00:43:19] this about talking about mental health you know um and my own family my son struggles with lots

[00:43:25] of things and it gives a platform to talk about these kind of things it's a lot more prevalent in

[00:43:29] in the younger generations the ability to talk about it because of the you know because people

[00:43:35] are being more open so I think it's fantastic so well done to you i'm more than happy just to

[00:43:40] spend the hour chatting to you it's been very enjoyable thank you very much thank you

[00:43:49] thanks for listening to this week's episode feel free to reach out to Folka or David via our website

[00:43:55] www.manupdown.com or podcast at manupdown.com with any feedback or to let us know what topics

[00:44:02] you'd like us to cover in the future here you again soon